TubeNet

Is there another lesson from this?

"Don't try to buy expensive stuff from children."

Bloke, I absolutely agree. In many high school curricula, there is a class for civics/social studies/general ed credit called "Liberty and Law," or similar. The class is usually taught by an off-season coach who would rather be reviewing game films, and it is taught so dry and so abstract as to bore the class: "This is the Constitution...This is the Declaration of Independence...These are the three main branches of government..." etc., ad nauseam. Necessary to know, yes; taught in a way that the students will learn something meaningful? Never.

What these classes need are real-life examples of things such as how to write a check and bank account agreements, what really happens when you use a credit card, sign an automobile installment contract, criminal law procedure as to what happens when you get stopped for a traffic ticket, or worse, arrested, etc. In short, the practical aspects of what most people encounter.

I say that from the perspective of teaching the Boy Scout merit badges that do the same thing: Law, Citizenship, etc. That's what I do. In addition, I hold a "mock trial" where we do something like try Jack for killing the giant as he climbs down the beanstalk, etc., and have a real policeman or sheriff's deputy talk to the Scouts.

For citizenship, I tied Lincoln to Martin Luther King, Jr., had them read national newpaper articles, and instead of lecturing on the Constitution, had each of them tell me their favorite Amendment and why.

At the end of the merit badges, I heard more than one say it was the best merit badge ever, and what was I going to be teaching at the next merit badge gathering.

The schools aren't doing it. Granted, they were never really set up to do it. This has become generational, so that even well meaning parents don't often do it. We must take it upon ourselves to teach youth how to be adults.

Don't blame the kids.
It's not their fault they were raised that way.

bloke wrote:

Uncle Buck wrote:Is there another lesson from this?

"Don't try to buy expensive stuff from children."

...and (as the internet is where most things are advertised for sale) I didn't know this person was this young until shortly before they reneged; I was under the impression that they were in their 30's.

Further, "children" probably needs to be defined up as "anyone who lives with their parents or via their parents".

When I posted, I tried (unsuccessfully, so I ended up leaving it out) to come up with a good definition for "children." You nailed it.

Yes, except for the fact that, at 51 years of age, I'm living with my parents for the short term while I figure out alternate living arrangements due to my divorce and reinstituting my professional qualifications. So, yes, I am a "child."

There's exceptions to every rule.

Boy, I was fuming just reading your story Wade! Holy cow! I cannot believe that someone would EVER do that to an instrument they haven't already paid for and think that it's ok! I'm only a young whipper-snapper (less than a month away from 28), but I like to think I was raised a lot better than that. Good grief...Coming from a family with strong religious (and moral) values, and being an Eagle Scout certainly contributed to that (I'm glad to see other out there involved in scouting iiipopes! I'm the scoutmaster for our church's troop!). Anyway, that story just really got my blood boiling Wade...kids (and parents) these days....

Many years ago, a pro playing in a 'second level' orchestra asked me to send an F tuba for a trial. After sending it I waited a couple of weeks and called... no answer so I sent a letter (this was before the Internet). I didn't hear anything for a ten days or so which made me nervous, I started calling and writing regularly. No response. I wrote to him at the hall, no response. I finally called the hall only to find out the orchestra was on tour in Europe. At least I knew why he wasn't answering.

Long story short, four months (and about two dozen letters later) later he sent the horn back without responding to me but none the worse for wear. Friends told me he really sounded great on my F tuba during the European tour.

Mature or not, ever since then my bottom line is "you send the money and I'll send the horn." Trial period may be included but everybody knows when the deal is finalized. I print up a contract and we both sign it. Too many nightmares to have to put up with that again.

I am sorry to hear about all the troubles. I would recommend exchanging cash for merchandise face to face with the buyer or seller, and getting or giving a receipt.

Curmudgeon wrote:Must have been an extremely "good deal" to elicit such ire and disappointment.

Astute observation.

Curmudgeon wrote:Must have been an extremely "good deal" to elicit such ire and disappointment.

Nah, you know bloke isn't likely someone to count his chickens before they're plucked. My guess is that he made some super generous offer, and then when the other party backed out it, it was like a mortal affront. I'm picturing him jumping in the wagon with a pair of matching pistols and heading out to demand satisfaction ... but then he got to thinking about how it all boils down to the deteriorating moral fiber of recent generations, and he needed to post about it on Tubenet, so he turned around.

Well, that's awkward, and perhaps does go some ways to explain why we're checking this mole hill out for ski lift potential.

So there's context, consequences. You mentioned the possibility of relevant context on the other end, too "(particularly with no overwhelming reasons)". We can infer that there was in fact some reason, however underwhelming it may have actually been.

But of course it's normally not our business to know how a transaction fits in with the other party's plans, and stripped of that context, I don't find it surprising at all that someone saw nothing wrong with canceling a deal. I don't see it as a sign of immaturity or anything like that, I just can't see why it would be obvious at what point a sale agreement becomes a sacred pledge - the high school course that iipopes proposes that would teach us these fine points of business ethics doesn't exist, and even if it did, the reality is that an informal sale agreement is invariably subject to the vagaries of its real world circumstances. What I'm trying to get at is a distinction between social customs that we can only know by learning them from sources that agree with each other, vs. ethics that we can to some extent reason out for ourselves.

You're right that his squishy behavior reflects unfavorably on him. I'm just saying that on the face of it, for those of us who know nothing more about the details of the agreement or the circumstances around it, it just isn't the smoldering indictment of a generation and that generation's parents that some of us are making it out to be.

Now, the horn screwer guy ought to be out busting rocks. That's a case where he (and his father, apparently) could have known better without anyone having to instruct them in any social customs.

Here is the problem when a young person sells something:
Kid aggress to the deal.
Kid tells parents.
Parents say they paid twice that, and will only sell it for more than what they paid.
Kid renegs on deal.

bloke wrote:There are millions of AMAZING and WONDERFUL people in America, but (yeah: go ahead and tear into me Donn...) over the last 35 years of dealing with people in business, bit-by-bit it's becoming a human wasteland.

I'm just saying they've always been there. The amazing and wonderful people, the human waste, both. The amazing and wonderful are more likely to be remembered long after they're gone, or even only 35 years later. Times change - life was different when I was a kid in many important ways, and I wasn't around for the world wars, the depression, etc. - and people are affected by the climate of their own era, and their regional culture and so forth, but the human waste has always been abundantly represented - and has always been a minority.