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Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:57 pm**

Both ideas sound reasonable. Hanging the ceiling board is no fun but, using screws and a real drywall gun (not a drill motor with a screwdriver bit) it should be pretty easy. Have you done ceiling before? There are some tricks to make it easier.

(A drywall gun has a clutch on the tip that sences when the screw is in far enough and disengages the bit. You don't have to worry about smashing the board by running the bit too far. It disengages before it gets that far. Yes, it will cost more but sometimes a good tool is worth the money.)

Posted: **Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:19 pm**

the elephant wrote:I am striking out on Facebook, so I am now asking here and on some other forums where the members are multitalented and might have experience with this stuff.

I have two issues in my living room that have been in need of attention for years now. I think I have figured out the easiest/cheapest solution to get what I want.

1. False Ceiling

I have many issues with my ceiling that I won't go into here. The main issue is that is is 80 year old shiplapped (but still rough) planks. At one end they are cupped enough to prevent drywall from being screwed flush to the planks, leaving about a quarter inch of space between the faces of the planks and the cupped edges. I could take about a hundred years to hand plane these flat enough to lay drywall flat against the ceiling in this one area, but that would suck. The cupping is deep enough that when you drive the drywall screw through the drywall will snap along the plank length where the screws live.

I want to plane or chisel out small runs across these planks and lay 2x4s in a frame work and hang the drywall from them instead. This will work just fine. Since the insulation in this 80 year old house is not all that great I would fill the 1.5" (actual) void between the plank ceiling and my new drywall.

Has anyone here ever had to do this? How did it work out for you? It seems that, once the 2x4 frame had been built and was smooth across the room that installing the sheetrock would be a breeze compared to hanging it from the planks directly. Still, lots of work and the outcome is an unknown to me.

2. False Wall

Same issues as with the ceiling, I have a wall of shiplapped planks sheathed with .25" hardwood paneling sheets with seams visible all over. I had a fireplace that I covered over. The bricks seem to have shifted just a bit where the chimney comes through the wall. It is framed around the chimney, so removal would make a massive hole in my wall that would have to be framed in and then, well, made into an exterior wall with siding and such, so removal, while on the distant horizon, will not happen for some years. The bricks of the chimney (or maybe the wooden wall itself) have shifted since I did this project about six years ago. The cover I made fit almost perfectly all the way around save for the upper left corner, which intruded into the room (stuck out from the wall) by about an eighth of an inch for several inches at the corner where the old wall is a bit warped. Over six years that protrusion is now about 5mm (under a quarter inch) but it has busted open the lousy spackle job I did to hide this edge.

So with the panel seams, this ugliness, and the fact that the builders did not put a stud along the centerline of the wall so that my very heavy artwork has to hang just off center (not good for my OCD!!!) I want to simply build a false wall to big me a new, flat surface from which to hang drywall.

I would frame in 2x4 studs with a header and footer lined up with all the current studs (and add studs where I want to hang stuff), fill with soundproofing stuff (I will look into that later) and wall over.

Anyone do this in the past? It seems like it would be like hanging drywall in a cement basement, but with the new wall being attached to wood rather than the concrete. The wall is stable and solid. It is just really ugly with the fireplace patch. There are no outlets or switch boxes to mess with, just a smooth, bare wall about 13'Wx9'H.

Anyone?

How high is your existing ceiling? PM me or, better yet, e-mail, as it would make for easier communication.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:06 am**

Well, I know how much you appreciate a selection of random answers from people with no actual experience, so ...!

There is some mystery around the ceiling framework. Looks like the 2x4s would go on their sides, not typical joist on-edge construction (because you say 1½".) This stuff is all hanging from real joists above the lapped planks? Is this a situation where the normal thing would be to remove the planks? I would be a little skeptical about straightness of 2x4 framing lumber, over time.

I do have a little experience shimming up joists, in my case to make a level support for a floor. In retrospect, I should have torn out more stuff.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:36 am**

With a 9' ceiling, and the need for insulation, and the desire to avoid "sculpting" the shiplap to level things, what I have typically done in my other line of work is to frame up an entire new ceiling of 2x6's dropped a foot, which will give you an 8' finish. Install ledgers around the 4 sides of the room, dead level, then, using standard joist hangers [as in a deck], drop in some straight [I suggest a real lumber yard if there is still one in your area--those big box stores are not cheaper, nor is their quality nearly as good as a lumber yard] 2x6's, bridge in the center, or twice along the span if the room is particularly large. Obvious qualifiers: hit the studs when installing ledgers, keep 16" centers on the joists' entire length, etc., etc.
This will give you a perfect frame for sheetrocking and you can insulate deep and clean with batts instead of the more-expensive polyisocyanurate ridged insulation, too.
The wall when I get home from work.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:45 pm**

the elephant wrote: 2. False Wall

Same issues as with the ceiling, I have a wall of shiplapped planks sheathed with .25" hardwood paneling sheets with seams visible all over. I had a fireplace that I covered over. The bricks seem to have shifted just a bit where the chimney comes through the wall. It is framed around the chimney, so removal would make a massive hole in my wall that would have to be framed in and then, well, made into an exterior wall with siding and such, so removal, while on the distant horizon, will not happen for some years. The bricks of the chimney (or maybe the wooden wall itself) have shifted since I did this project about six years ago. The cover I made fit almost perfectly all the way around save for the upper left corner, which intruded into the room (stuck out from the wall) by about an eighth of an inch for several inches at the corner where the old wall is a bit warped. Over six years that protrusion is now about 5mm (under a quarter inch) but it has busted open the lousy spackle job I did to hide this edge.

So with the panel seams, this ugliness, and the fact that the builders did not put a stud along the centerline of the wall so that my very heavy artwork has to hang just off center (not good for my OCD!!!) I want to simply build a false wall to big me a new, flat surface from which to hang drywall.

I would frame in 2x4 studs with a header and footer lined up with all the current studs (and add studs where I want to hang stuff), fill with soundproofing stuff (I will look into that later) and wall over.

Anyone do this in the past? It seems like it would be like hanging drywall in a cement basement, but with the new wall being attached to wood rather than the concrete. The wall is stable and solid. It is just really ugly with the fireplace patch. There are no outlets or switch boxes to mess with, just a smooth, bare wall about 13'Wx9'H.

Anyone?

Okay--the wall. As you state, simply erect an entire new wall in front of the existing, defective, one. Do not attach it in any way to the existing, simply construct it on the floor to terminate about an inch short of the existing ceiling [Do this prior to replacing the ceiling.] and then raise it into place and shim to the existing ceiling. Screw/nail it to the floor and ceiling, drywall and you have a perfect wall. Add studs and blocking where needed to hang heavy objects. Make sure you lay out the bottom of the plate so it is 90 degrees to either side wall if possible and just far enough from the existing wall that, when you plumb it up, the back of the studwall will not hit any bumps or any lean in the existing wall. In other words, if the old wall leans in, make sure that your wall is situated far enough away that the new top will not strike the existing corner between ceiling and wall. Insulate, being careful to leave an air pocket behind the new work so air can circulate--don't let the insulation spill out the back of the stud bays and lodge against the old wall. You can easily staple on chicken wire prior to standing the wall up; this will prevent the insulation from "slumping" over time.
After this wall is in place, you can do the ceiling prior to sheet rocking. Over all, not rocket science, but you should pay attention to detail to get a really nice project. Good luck! If you have questions, do not hesitate to contact me. I have had my own remodeling construction business for many years but still must plan every detail to avoid oops-es at the end!

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 5:46 pm**

There you go--an oops and a double post! Sorry.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:50 pm**

For an off the wall idea - or on the ceiling actually, if the defects in the ceiling boards are in a relatively small part of that one end ...

Make a sort of vaulted ceiling, with the center screwed right to the existing ceiling and the ends mounted on tapered framing.

I would use gypsum veneer plaster, sort of the modern descendant of lathe and plaster, because it might be perfect for this application and sort of fun, but it takes some skill and I only got away with it because I've only done small areas. The materials aren't usually stocked in the big boxes - two types of plaster (base and finish coats), and a special wallboard ("gypsum base" or "plaster base") with a furry surface. Supposedly you can make ordinary wallboard work, but without that furry surface the plaster clings to itself better than the wall and it's harder to flatten it out. I suppose it would be smart to run a molding around the top of the wall where the plaster will end. If the vault is only one direction and the other direction meets the wall at 90°, that intersection can be plaster-to-drywall within the realm of possibility.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:14 pm**

bloke wrote:
scottw wrote:There you go--an oops and a double post! Sorry.
If room width is at an absolute premium, could he frame up that wall (as it is not load-bearing) out of 2x3 lumber?

Sure you could save 1" on the room, but unless you live in an area of the country in which they supply Hemlock-Fir 2x3 studs instead of spruce, you should not use these things with the expectation they will stay even reasonably straight. Not worth using unless they are H-F, and I would also go kiln dried on the 2x4's. For the extra cost on a small job such as this, definitely worth it for a better product.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:18 pm**

Donn wrote:For an off the wall idea - or on the ceiling actually, if the defects in the ceiling boards are in a relatively small part of that one end ...

Make a sort of vaulted ceiling, with the center screwed right to the existing ceiling and the ends mounted on tapered framing.

I would use gypsum veneer plaster, sort of the modern descendant of lathe and plaster, because it might be perfect for this application and sort of fun, but it takes some skill and I only got away with it because I've only done small areas. The materials aren't usually stocked in the big boxes - two types of plaster (base and finish coats), and a special wallboard ("gypsum base" or "plaster base") with a furry surface. Supposedly you can make ordinary wallboard work, but without that furry surface the plaster clings to itself better than the wall and it's harder to flatten it out. I suppose it would be smart to run a molding around the top of the wall where the plaster will end. If the vault is only one direction and the other direction meets the wall at 90°, that intersection can be plaster-to-drywall within the realm of possibility.

This would be an option, yes. But, anytime you have odd angles coming together, it is not usually a job for the homeowner. And probably not for a lot of builders, either, due to the potential for cracking at the odd intersections. One really must know what one is doing to prevent lousy seams and the cracking which goes with them.

Posted: **Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:28 pm**

bloke wrote:yeah...
I know a home builder who built himself a house with a L-O-N-G barrel vault ceiling (the longest/widest one in any house in Tennessee - he claimed)...across the center entire (5000 sq. ft.) house.

...all sorts of cracking/peeling problems.

Yes, these frequently have so many moving parts of structure that rigid material like drywall can't help but crack--badly sometimes.

Posted: **Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:44 am**

Is there any option of just removing the ship-lap? Building false walls in front of bad walls doesn't make those bad walls any better. If the shiplap is curling, you may have a latent problem of moisture control. Wood swells when wet, and one side being wetter than the other will make it warp and cup.

And if your chimney is moving with respect to the house, that must be resolve at the foundation level before you do anything else. Otherwise, all your efforts will be temporary, and result in more destruction of stuff when you finally do have to repair the cause of that relative movement.

Rick "fix the problem" Denney

Posted: **Sat Jun 25, 2016 9:58 am**

Rick Denney wrote:Is there any option of just removing the ship-lap? Building false walls in front of bad walls doesn't make those bad walls any better. If the shiplap is curling, you may have a latent problem of moisture control. Wood swells when wet, and one side being wetter than the other will make it warp and cup.

And if your chimney is moving with respect to the house, that must be resolve at the foundation level before you do anything else. Otherwise, all your efforts will be temporary, and result in more destruction of stuff when you finally do have to repair the cause of that relative movement.

Rick "fix the problem" Denney

It's always good advice to fix the problem. Wade doesn't describe a problem that sounds serious [to the TNFJ]. The problem with wood is that, if you do not back-prime it, it will certainly curl due to the latent moisture in any exterior wall penetrating the wood, but only the back is affected. The front has very little moisture and is protected [usually] by paint, so you get that cupping. If Wade sees evidence of rotting wood, carpenter ants, or smells rot, then, certainly, strip off the shiplap and find the root of the problem.

Posted: **Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:17 am**

Personally, I'd sort of hate to lose a foot off a 9 foot ceiling, just for the sake of leaving the ceiling boards in place, so ... there must be some pretty good reason for it.

Posted: **Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:52 am**

the elephant wrote:
Donn wrote:Personally, I'd sort of hate to lose a foot off a 9 foot ceiling, just for the sake of leaving the ceiling boards in place, so ... there must be some pretty good reason for it.
Yep. Not wanting 2300 sq. ft. of nine foot ceilings be marred with the one room with an 8' ceiling. No reason, and I would have to address extending the three HVAC vents, which is not in the budget. I have enough adjustability to do the 1.5" of a flat 2x4 drop with sheetrock.

I love all this commentary, though. It is always fun to see who on here is knowledgable at different things, and most of the comments are educational and interesting.

Okay, if you want to do just 2x4's on the flat as furring [or better yet, 1x3's?], just make sure you use good exterior-grade screws, not drywall screws, and make damn sure you firmly attach these furring strips to joists and not just shiplap boards--drywall over your head crashes down very hard. Strongly suggest 16" centers and not 24". Shim as needed to make the ceiling flat. I would also suggest adding fillers at the ends around the perimeter for good nailing of drywall.
I understand not wanting to give away 9' ceilings, but extending the HVAC will cost very little, if that is the prime consideration. Gaining good insulation value should also factor into your decision--it will pay for itself very quickly.
Just for curiousity, what is the dimension of the room? I assume the joists run the narrower width?

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:08 am**

bloke wrote:The skinnier the shim, the better is the idea (and yeah, this takes up time - and is annoying...) to pre-drill a hole in the shim where the screw will go through the shim. Shims less than an inch thick (particularly if they are only a few inches long) are more likely to crack and (possibly) eventually fall away.

...no carpenter...only someone who has built some stuff from time-to-time, flipped a couple of properties, and mounted some cabinets

Tip: before sliding a shim [buy undercourse shingles, not the pre-packaged pine ones, btw--much cheaper, they are cedar, much handier] into place, put a bit of yellow carpenter's glue or gun adhesive on both sides of it. This will keep it in place forever. I have never pre-drilled a shim, though: I'll put it on my bucket list!

If you need something quite thick, use plywood scraps, not lumber; plywood will not crack and split.

Posted: **Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:24 pm**

Attn---Mrs. bloke: 98 degrees is too hot (and 400 feet away from air-conditioning and cold water is too far away) for an old fat man to be building sheds! Please let him rest!

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