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Would you have done somthing similar?
http://www.pressconnects.com/thursday/n ... 0345.shtml

He seams to be handling thing correctly too.
http://www.pressconnects.com/sunday/new ... 0873.shtml

I think we need more people like this. Not afraid to get involved.

What about you.

Doc, know anything more?

It's better to let the police handle it rather than become a vigilante. If you can talk a drunk guy out of driving or take his keys, that's fine, but once the guy is driving get yourself out of danger, alert the police, and warn others if you can. One of the main differences between a civilized country and an uncivilized one is the confidence the citizens have in law enforcement. If you don't have that kind of confidence, your efforts will be more effective in city hall than they will be on the road trying to stop a 70,000lb tractor trailer.

-Eric

Shockwave wrote:It's better to let the police handle it rather than become a vigilante.

This is not vigilante in the common sense of the phrase.

If you can talk a drunk guy out of driving or take his keys, that's fine, but once the guy is driving get yourself out of danger, alert the police, and warn others if you can. One of the main differences between a civilized country and an uncivilized one is the confidence the citizens have in law enforcement. If you don't have that kind of confidence, your efforts will be more effective in city hall than they will be on the road trying to stop a 70,000lb tractor trailer.

Of course if that driver had then kill someone,owhen he refused to stop, once he got ro hiway speed, how'd you feel? That assumes the police manage to locate him quickly too. At 8 am, one truck could be hard to find on a busy freeway.

If you saw someone being beaten, would you help? Or would yu call the cops, and stand there watching as someone wase beatebn to death? What if it was rape?
What about this case?

What if it was you being attacked and noione helped?

Remember the cops need our help. They cannot be everywhere at once.
We have a duty to help others.

Read up on the start of our system. The people are supposed to be the primary law enforcement officers. It still shows up today. A citizen has to pres charges in many crime. The D.A. cannot fil charges for many (most?) crimes except at the behest of a victim.

The dude is certainly a hero. I think I would have followed behind on the cell phone to police dispatch.

It was the right thing to do IMO. If I had seen someone drinking or whatever and they were about to get on the freeway I'd do what I had to do to stop them. Because if I didn't and I heard later that someone was injured or died because of that person I don't think I could forgive myself. I believe that we must do our part to help OUR community. You cannot just wait for bad things to happen. Not if you can stop it.


Ralph

Regardless of what you think a vigilante is, it is someone who takes or even advocates taking law enforcement into their own hands. Someone who acts as judge, jury, and executioner is a murderer.

Every situation is different. In the case of the drunk driver, I would try to stop him before he got in the truck and started moving. Once that truck is moving it is a deadly weapon and I never mess with anyone who has a deadly weapon because interfering with them is more likely to cause death than leaving them alone. If I'm in a convenience store and a guy pulls a gun on a clerk and asks for all the money in the register, I will do absolutely nothing until he's gone, unless I can sneak out the door and get to a phone. If I come across a rape and the rapist obviously has a knife or a gun, I'll just wait and help the girl out afterward. I wont do anything in the case of a beating unless one person is down and is still getting beaten. If someone has a knife to my eye mugging me, don't do anything to provoke them.

In the case of trying to stop a semi truck with a car, that's just plain stupid. What's to say that trying to stop that semi wouldn't make it swerve into a full restaurant, or into a school bus? If the highway is busy, the police can use the CB radio to find that truck in about a minute. Risking your life to prevent something that might possibly occur is pretty stupid. If you can see something is inevitable and really horrible like a dam burst because some guy is asleep at the spillway controls, sure you can do something, but most drunk drivers dont hurt anyone, especially on limited access highways.

In prosecution, crimes where there is a victim require the alleged victim to press charges because the victim is responsible for bringing a frivolous accusations. Most crimes are victimless statutory crimes and charges are brought by the state.

The police don't want your help doing the dirty work, they want more trained police for that. I want trained police doing the dirty work, not Joe Schmoe who dreams of personal glory. Vigilantism was unacceptable even in the wild west.



-Eric

Shockwave wrote:Regardless of what you think a vigilante is, it is someone who takes or even advocates taking law enforcement into their own hands.

Vigilante: vigilant one, one who is vigilant.
Spanish for watchman or guard.

The police don't want your help doing the dirty work, they want more trained police for that.

Any that is why you'll not have peace nor justice. It takes every one of us to get that. We all must be vigilant. If you see something wrong, you report it, not ignore it. If someone need help, you try to provide it.

The police are not there to protect you, as an individual. Look up the case law on that one.

I want trained police doing the dirty work, not Joe Schmoe who dreams of personal glory.

Personal glory has nothing to do with it. Community responsibility. Personal responsibility.
I'm responsible for the safety and protection of my family, and my fellow citizens.

Vigilantism was unacceptable even in the wild west.

But citizens were youse for law enforcement. Just as they are today.
In the old west, the citizens were called upon to help terack down criminals and bring them in for trial. It's called a posse. They are still used today, when searching for missing people, especially children.

And the primary tenants of our judicial system give the citizens judicial power. A grand jury indicts, not the government. All the D.A. can do is present the case. Trials ae decided but citizen jurors, not government officials. A person defends themself, with the asistance of an attorney if desired, but a law degree is not required.

Brass. Spheres.

Shockwave wrote:If I come across a rape and the rapist obviously has a knife or a gun, I'll just wait and help the girl out afterward.

Are you serious!?! I mean REALLY, are you SERIOUS?




Ralph

Yes, I am serious. Rape is mild compared to murder. Why should I risk my life and the life of the victim to possibly shorten the rape? Once a woman thinks she is going to be raped, damage has already been done.

-Eric

Shockwave, I'd sure like to hear your definition of rape. You appear to think it is "forcible intercourse." Like, the lady doesn't want to have sex but the guy makes her. And she might be, oh, a little upset afterwards, right? Sort of the same as if she didn't want to kiss him and he made her?

What if it was a guy, a good friend of yours, being raped by a filthy, HIV-positive drug addict?

MA, who finds herself agreeing with Mr. Dodd on this one. If we had more people who were not weenies we'd have a whole lot less crime going on. I have personally confronted a drunken idiot and stopped a possible beating, myself, a few decades ago. Bullies are also cowards.

I have personally confronted a drunken idiot and stopped a possible beating, myself, a few decades ago. Bullies are also cowards.

I have to agree with Harold on this one.....Twice in the last coulple of years families have lost their fathers because they decided to "do the right thing" and stop robberies. MA may have known the guy was drunk and I am guessing unarmed.....the guy that stopped the semi didn't know what the situation was with the semi driver and he basically stepped in front of a loaded gun. Luckily for him the guy didn't pull the trigger.

I guess I will bite the bait, so to speak. Many of you know that I work in music, education and law enforcement.

There are quite a few good points made so far. Here are a few more.

1. As a law enforcement officer, I don't ask the citizen on the street to do the dirty work. I do ask them to be observant, and be willing and available to testify to what they truely witness.

2. I want more people to use common sense. Do your best to not be in situations where you are exposed to danger. Be prepared for the event as best as possible.

3. Be willing to do something if wrong is committed. Decide how far you are willing to go in a situation, and be prepared to do what is legal and correct. Make sure that you are confortable with your actions, and are willing to see the situation through. Taking the law into your own hands will get you arrested as well as the suspect, but being willing to help correctly will indeed assist law enforcement. ( I can think of many good people who will assist in traffic accidents when they do what is asked of them, and stay within their own limits of training. They are also willing to obey instructions. )

4. Hold your temper, and keep a clear head.

5. Understand that there are many situations where time is on your side. Hasty action often leads to incorrect actions. Unless you are giving CPR, or reacting to a present danger that will result in quick loss of life, you have time to call for help. You also have time for help to arrive. You sometimes see this when law enforcement will wait out a situation untill the correct people take care of a situation.

6. Realize that sometime the best thing to do is give confort and assurance. Sometimes, that's all I can do.

There have been plenty of times where I have seen a drunk driver, yelling session, shoplifting, or other act that has been on the verge of going bad. If I am off-duty, I make a quick call to the law enforcement agency in jurisdiction, and I observe. If I act incorrectly, a suspect goes free because of my mistake. I can be of better service to the judicial system and the victim if I deliver quality testimony concerniong the event, not give the suspect a way out legally. ( Of course, if life is in eminent danger, I am allowed to act accordingly. )

Tom Mason

bloke wrote:

What if it was a guy, a good friend of yours, being raped by a filthy, HIV-positive drug addict?

Are the three of us on an escalator in Macy's, or what...??

He had said that if he observed a woman being raped, he would do nothing but wait until it was over and then offer assistance. I was merely putting something else in his scenario, which he did not define. He also does not seem to have the concept that a rape can last hours. Reference Doug's comment above about the NYC tragedy.
MA, who has been told it is far better to yell "FIRE" than to yell "RAPE."