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Tuners in performances.
I went to a state band festival the other day, where one of the bands I student teach with was performing. A band at the festival, who shall remain nameless, had clip on tuners on virtually all the instruments throughout the entire performance. I commented negatively on this to another teacher, and his response was "well, they played in tune, didn't they?" sugggesting that it was a good idea. Even if the technology was there (which it sort of was) something like this would have been unthinkable when I was in school. I can see doing an occassional rehearsal with a tuner clamped on every instrument, but am I the only one out there who thinks this is completely inappropriate for a performance? What next - the Ashlee Simpson High School Band?

I agree. Tuners are just that, for tuning.

Having tuners all the time prevent development of the ear. So what do you do when the tuner breaks, or the battery dies in the first movemnet/piece?

Similar to the problem of relying on visual images instead of developing reading skill. It takes practice to create mental images based on written descriptions. Many teens today, of the ones that can read the words at least, cannot visulize the sceen. It also leads to a lack of ability to go the other way, describing an image with words.

It depends on what you are trying to develop: eyes or ears?
(and there's a reason that that not all tunings are "even-tempered"... )

MartyNeilan wrote:Tuners in performances.
I commented negatively on this to another teacher, and his response was "well, they played in tune, didn't they?" sugggesting that it was a good idea.

Was typing this once, but...

I bet that the band was not even close to the same level of intonation as the best group there.

Fact: The best director I have ever worked with on any level tuned his band about once a month at most. His high school bands performed internationally and made recording on par with many university wind ensembles. Intonation was always extremely good in his groups.

Common knowledge (I thought): A major chord when voiced, the third is a little flat and the fifth is a little sharp. It is different for a minor chord.

From http://www.thetuningcd.com:

Interval Name To sound "in tune"...

Major 2nd is to be played 3.9 cents sharp.
minor 3rd is to be played 15.6 cents sharp.
Major 3rd is to be played 13.7 cents flat.
Perfect 4th is to be played 2.0 cents flat.
Perfect 5th is to be played 2.0 cents sharp.
Major 6th is to be played 15.6 cents flat.
minor 7th is to be played 17.6 cents sharp.
Major 7th is to be played 11.6 cents flat.

So if those kids were playing major chords in tune with the tuner, then it probably sounded cold at best or USDA Grade A a$$ at worst.

Sounds like just another trick/gimmick for an incompetent band director.

I would ask: Do you still ride your bicycle with training wheels?

IMO, the best thing for tuning in the band room is a tone generator. One of those Peterson deals that puts out that annyingly-close-to-a-sine-wave sound is very goo for getting a band in tune on one pitch. The tuning of chords has to be done by teaching a student what a truly in-tune chord sounds like and the adjustments needed to achieve that.

Also, I have seen Doug Yeo and Gene Pokorny profess about the usefullness of one of those tuning with the cd type products. They still use them to get in tune and stay in tune with the group. I doubt that a tuner is on either of there stands very long.

I wish band directors would get rid of tuners altogether. In the studios you may see an oboist with a tuner, but that's about it. The players are expected to be in tune on their own at the downbeat. An "A" is often given, and that should be enough.

I have been in groups that go around and tune every player with the strobe before rehearsals and performances and others where one note and sometimes no notes are given. The groups that spend the least time on "tuning up" sound better every time.

Hey, let's be honest here. A clip on tuner can only be of any use on a long sustained note anyway. The thing probably can't respond quick enough to keep up with moving passages, and even if it could, you still need to keep your eyes on the music and the conductor. So what good is it? From Marty's comments, he noted that another teacher thought the band was in tune so I would suspect that the kids did most of all that "being in tune" on their own. Having the thing on the horn will aid more in teaching the kids what the note when played alone should sounds like rather than helping the group play in tune. Isn't technology great? (thinking this as I hit submit and you all get to read it on your computers)