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i thought of putting this in the repair/mod section, but it isn't specifically that, so here it is. I watch PBS (This old house etc) sometimes, and on one of the shows they talk about the intense deficit of people going into what they called "the trades." Being, things that require smarts but don't involve sitting behind a desk...like plumbers, carpenters, electricians, masons, etc, and of course those who work on instruments.

We have a few here who are known for their fine work; but.... none are young. I would have loved to have gone into this when I was younger, but I had no clue such a thing even existed, and definitely would have been heavily discouraged from doing so, being female and all. And I have to admit I probably did better for myself financially, when I went back for re-education, by doing the engineer thing. It's why I can sit here six years retired and not be worrying about where my next meal is coming from. But when my company gave me a career interest test, what came out on top was bench work. Fixing stuff.

Around here they are advertising special high school education called STEM: Science, Technology, Engineering, and I don't know what the M stands for. But apparently there is a dearth of people going into those too, at the college level.

Even in my job, which concentrated on electrical systems (the lines up on the poles etc) I ended up spending my days at an, ugh, computer, and programming the silly thing to supply data to a complex protection system.

So....if you are a high school teacher, how are things at your school? Are all the kids being convinced they need "higher education" in order to be "successful?" I would think being able to be independent of a all-powerful employer would be attractive to many.

M = Mathematics - the Queen of Sciences.

FWIW> Number Theory is the Queen of Mathematics (Fredereich Gauss -arguably the greatest mathematician to date). In the spirit of "transparency" my doctorate happens to be in Number Thoery.

In Iowa, many groups promote MEATS.

It's not an acronym.

Stryk wrote:We have a group in FLorida promoting STEAM, not STEM - the A is to include the arts. STEM has further devastated the band programs in our state. In the area I live, it was not uncommon to see 200-300 piece bands a decade or so ago. Now it is uncommon to see as many as 80 members.

When I was in High School (class of '80) most of my band friends became engineers.

It was a very nice public school however so it could be an outlier...

I have long noted that amateur brass players are well populated with engineers. The doctors go for woodwinds and strings. I have no idea why that is, but I know I fit best, personality wise, in lower brass sections. I do not fit, personality-wise, into a violin section.

MaryAnn wrote: I would think being able to be independent of a all-powerful employer would be attractive to many.

Nearly all of us trade our Liberty for security.

It's usually only a matter of to what degree...

I teach in a rural school where there are a fair number of students who choose to go to trade schools, community colleges, etc. instead of a four year college or university. We also have a nice shop for all the hands on stuff (industrial tech, welding, etc.). So I think we do a pretty good job of showing the kids that not everyone needs (or wants) to go to a four-year college to get an education that can provide you with a career.

On a side note, as you might have seen in some of my posts, I have gotten into the "hands on" side of things while learning to repair my own instruments. Teaching is what I really love (hence why I chose to be a teacher!), but I really do enjoy being able to work on my own instruments and even recently, I got paid to work on a friend's horn! Will I ever be a bloke, Dan, or any of our other fine repair folks? Probably not, but I like the feeling of doing something yourself.

Tubajug wrote:but I like the feeling of doing something yourself.

I like the feeling of doing something yourself, too, but I'm too cheap to pay for it, so I end up doing a lot of it myself.

bloke wrote:"Most anything gets old, and may be growing weary of doing some-things for myself."

When I was a young man, just out of grad school and starting my career and having purchased my first house, and enjoying my sports car, I enjoyed the rituals of amassing the tools, appliances, implements and machinery over time as needed as home and auto maintenance, repairs and projects presented themselves, and took great satisfaction of being able to do just about anything that did not need a specialist with specialized tools or final inspection by someone with a required license. (Remember the Harry Callahan quote, "A man's got to know his limitations.")

Now, thirty years later, I really don't care if I ever even pick up even a small screwdriver to snug the screws on a light switch plate. It's time for me to let the next group of young sprouts to take over.

iiipopes wrote:

bloke wrote:"Most anything gets old, and may be growing weary of doing some-things for myself."

When I was a young man, just out of grad school and starting my career and having purchased my first house, and enjoying my sports car, I enjoyed the rituals of amassing the tools, appliances, implements and machinery over time as needed as home and auto maintenance, repairs and projects presented themselves, and took great satisfaction of being able to do just about anything that did not need a specialist with specialized tools or final inspection by someone with a required license. (Remember the Harry Callahan quote, "A man's got to know his limitations.")

Now, thirty years later, I really don't care if I ever even pick up even a small screwdriver to snug the screws on a light switch plate. It's time for me to let the next group of young sprouts to take over.

My experience is very different. For over 40 years, my job as an engineer required a lot of travel, meetings, computer work and planning. I did accumulate tools for home repair via purchase or inheritance. I did do the home repair, but woodworking or other projects had to be delayed because of other commitments. I even stopped playing tuba for about 30 years. Now that I'm retired, working with my hands and playing tuba occupies most days. I know a very large number of old guys that do the same.

Don't wait until you're old. Work is not for me, as it turns out.

bloke wrote:Retirement is an interest concept...

I don't see it for me, but it's interesting.

My wife doesn't see it for me either.

Her?? Sure. Me?? NO!!

I went back to school at 32 because I realized that doing what I was doing, which was free-lancing, playing in a regional orchestra, and giving 40 lessons a week, was not going to put me in a position to a) ever buy a house, and b) retire comfortably. And I really was not enjoying myself. I did enjoy the free time I had to do whatever the heck I wanted in the summers, and I had a very creative period for a number of years. But....when I got my BSEE at 39, the financial picture dramatically changed. I was able to buy a house, and I am now comfortably retired. A lot of it was not a lot of fun, but it had other rewards: I proved to myself that I was smart enough to be an engineer, I was capable of staying in a job that had bad management, and I loved the intellectual challenge of the work. Now, six years retired, survived a life-threatening illness, and back having fun with music and re-doing the inside of my house at my own tempo. The most wonderful thing about being the age I am with the background I now have, is that I have lost ambition and stopped worrying about getting better at everything. I'm good enough, as long as I don't screw up the ensemble with my mistakes. This may sound like a bad thing, but ambition and fun are pretty much not in the same bag for me. So I opt for fun. Glad I made the decisions I did, and don't ever wish I had stayed on the path I was on. I'd still like to compose at least one really good, playable, popular piece, but don't seem to have the real ambition to do that either, leaving it in the wish category for now.