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As well as China has been doing on improving instrument quality, I don't think I'd go back. I enjoyed my trips, including an incredibly ill-fated and nightmarish tour with the West End cast of Chicago, but it seems the government likes to cause trouble and blame everyone else.

It's disappointing.

BopEuph wrote:.... but it seems the government likes to cause trouble and blame everyone else.

Three Valves wrote:

BopEuph wrote:.... but it seems the government likes to cause trouble and blame everyone else.

I'm not even talking about the political theater. In my experience, we were hired to do a gig, with certain requirements to be met, none of which were. We had none of the right gear, and were told to do an opening show (or tech run...or showcase...or dress rehearsral...whatever you want to call it when you're doing your first run-through in front of an audience of political leaders)..."or else". The man who owned the rights to Chicago had one bargaining chip, and he certainly used it. The West End company sneaked out before sunrise, leaving the rest of us there scratching our heads, and a Chinese government, who invested a not insignificant amount of money on their own blunder, was out for blood.

The seven US musicians stayed behind and enjoyed a 5 week paid vacation, but I talked to the MD years later, who told me that the offices in NYC were actually being told we were held ransom, and we had no clue.

Here was my favorite interaction with them:

https://i.imgur.com/2xvTi3C.png" target="_blank

I was later told over the phone I was being too picky and need to come to some compromises. My tuba/bass issue was number three on a list of ten major compliance issues the NYC company was trying to work out.

Here's my discussion on the matter when it happened: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59141&p=501996&hilit=china#p501996" target="_blank

I went to China quite some time ago with a performing group - I'm 100% certain we were being followed and observed. We all just assumed that's the way business was done there.

Generally speaking, it's a filthy, crowded place where drinking the water (or consuming ice cubes) WILL make you physically ill.

We played in venues that were not air conditioned (in July) that left us absolutely dripping, drenched in sweat.

Other than these things, it was a great place to visit. The people themselves were very nice, and the culture was very fascinating. Overall, however, I'd have to say I wouldn't want to do it again.

My first tour was in the winter. No heaters allowed before 4 pm, so we were trying to do rehearsals in roughly 55-degrees. That was changed by the second time I went.

I really enjoyed the people, the culture, the views, but I'd never want to work there again, or live there, or deal with these kinds of business people.

Too many stories like this. Back in the 1990s (you’d think thing might have improved by the 21at century), I opted out of a new theme park gig in China. Some industrialist decided to construct a theme park in 6 months. Grand Link World. Still under construction when the band arrived. Complete with total intellectual property rights rip off of Disney Warner and others. Basically fulll big band and marching show band. As I recall, ends with the leader taking a low ball buyout of the “contract” in Chinese currency to black marketeers to exchange for USD (very illegal) and musicians praying they’ll get themselves and their horns out of the country before anyone knows they left.

It almost makes me wonder why we put up with their shenanigans so long, and complain when someone finally stands up to them. Not really...

This thread makes me feel a bit queasy about having just bought a Chinese tuba. Some of the money JinBao received for it undoubtedly went to support the regime of thugs that governs that country.

Pushing broom is still better than being sat with a dunce cap on!!

bloke wrote:but some people I know report have been in various instrument manufacturing facilities there time and again with (one day) someone taking the role of plant superintendent (on another day) the same person serving as the plant janitor (floor sweeper, etc.), with someone totally different serving as the superintendent.

If that's going on, it would be interesting to see a more detailed account of it, and I expect such accounts would be out there. Even the superintendent and janitor jobs depend on some acquired skills.

I have a vague recollection of similar practices in the west, where someone on an executive track might rotate through a number of real jobs in the organization, with a little training and a long enough stint to get the idea but not long enough to bring down production significantly. I don't mean to say that's common practice, just that I think it has happened - without any intent to disrupt ordinary employment structure.

As for who owns the means of production ... no doubt, it's "the people", but I doubt your lot as a worker has anything to do with that. There may be legal standards, similar in principle to what labor unions got us though of course less generous. Do they still all take naps in the middle of the day?

For those of you who have turned off the ads, I’m getting ads now for 7% off flights to China via Air China for Chinese New Year!!

Three Valves wrote:For those of you who have turned off the ads, I’m getting ads now for 7% off flights to China via Air China for Chinese New Year!!

Do they include the standard 3-week ransom “layover”?

windshieldbug wrote:

Three Valves wrote:For those of you who have turned off the ads, I’m getting ads now for 7% off flights to China via Air China for Chinese New Year!!

Do they include the standard 3-week ransom “layover”?

Where's that damned "like button" when you need it?

roweenie wrote:

windshieldbug wrote:

Three Valves wrote:For those of you who have turned off the ads, I’m getting ads now for 7% off flights to China via Air China for Chinese New Year!!

Do they include the standard 3-week ransom “layover”?

Where's that damned "like button" when you need it?

+1

Winter of 2011-2012 my wife and I (string bass & trombone) did a tour of China with an orchestra from New York. Similar story, all the provided instruments (basses, cellos, and harp) were seriously substandard. One time an overnight travel was on unheated buses, temperature about freezing when we were promised luxury sleeper coaches. I was never aware of anybody following us around, and we did quite a bit of walking around the cities.

I'm glad we had a chance to do it, but I don't think I'd go back. I had a cough from the air pollution for a few months after.

I hope everyone's 2019 is getting off to a good start

For an excellent firsthand account of how business really works in China, I can recommend this book by Paul Midler:

Poorly Made in China

https://www.amazon.com/Poorly-Made-Chin ... 1491552549

Just to ad to the anecdotal evidence of being "followed around" in China: when my quintet flew into Beijing in spring 2011, the first night at our hotel, we were approached by an "English professor" from another "part of China" who was in Beijing on business. He spoke very good English and wanted to know all about us and what brought us to China. For the rest of the trip we all joked that this "professor" was a government spy gathering information on us.

The NY Phil goes to China every summer and Joe Alessi has done several seminars there. I wonder how they get all their basses, etc. there safely. Somehow, I don't see the NY Phil using rented student instruments.

bloke wrote: Top-tier professional orchestras own a complete set of not-inexpensive trunks to carry their instruments under the chartered airliners.

I remember reading about how the NY Phil has exactly this, and in the wake of 9/11, many of the instruments were missing or damaged from TSA on one of their tours.