Holton 345 Redux

Repair and modification discussion
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The Big Ben
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by The Big Ben »

Keep chipping away at it. It's looking good and you are going to be so glad when you have completed it so it is like you want it. Soooooon, sooooon...
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

+1
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

Great work Elephant! Keep it going!
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
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1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

First of all, congratulations on what you have achieved over the course of the last nine months as well as removing your self imposed deadline. The tuba will be finished to your satisfaction and you should be very proud of what you have accomplished. This thread with photos has provided so much learning for those such as myself who have absolutely no skills whatsoever in this area and therefore would never be able to take on such a gargantuan project. Your standards are very high and you are unwilling to compromise them. Bravo for that and bravo as well for knowing that this will come together to your satisfaction with hopefully much less stress for you. Well Done, Elephant!
Last edited by roughrider on Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
roughrider
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

Well Done!!
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

Very resourceful!
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day".
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

bloke wrote:I don't particularly like the "look" of it, but Jonathan's new buddy, Nickles, came up with a 4th valve routing (one one of their prototypes) where some of the #4 tubing traces the bottom bow along the upper part of the front. It's a low-damage area, and uses up a bunch of tubing really quickly. You could possibly end up with two upper-oriented #4 slides with such a routing: one in the typical spot, and another next to the front of the bell. Finally, it doesn't require the incredible precision of shape that does yet another tube fished around over the upper end of the valve block.
I'm always looking for fresh ideas - could you post a photo?
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

bloke wrote:
roweenie wrote:
bloke wrote:I don't particularly like the "look" of it, but Jonathan's new buddy, Nickles, came up with a 4th valve routing (one one of their prototypes) where some of the #4 tubing traces the bottom bow along the upper part of the front. It's a low-damage area, and uses up a bunch of tubing really quickly. You could possibly end up with two upper-oriented #4 slides with such a routing: one in the typical spot, and another next to the front of the bell. Finally, it doesn't require the incredible precision of shape that does yet another tube fished around over the upper end of the valve block.
I'm always looking for fresh ideas - could you post a photo?
Were I (??) to be influenced by this tack, this isn't quite what I would do, but here's the picture...

Image
Makes for an "open wrap", but not quite my "cup of tea"....
Last edited by roweenie on Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

Man, you're too quick for me!
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

It looks as though you are orientating the top bow so that it is dead center to the bell plane - all the 6/4 Holtons I've seen have it slightly behind:


Image


I ran into a similar problem when I was putting together a 6/4 Holton that I received in parts. When I was finally able to see an original horn and observe how it was laid out, I had an "aha" moment.

Maybe that will help bring things a little more in line? (I say "maybe" because even "uncut" factory Holton branches tend to be pretty horrendous when it comes to "fit and finish".....)
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roweenie »

bloke wrote:It's going to turn out just fine.
+1
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

roweenie wrote:
bloke wrote:It's going to turn out just fine.
+1
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

Any news on your project?
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
roughrider
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

It is all good. Thanks for the reply.
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
roughrider
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

Any news?
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
roughrider
4 valves
4 valves
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

Thanks for your reply! It will be absolutely awesome when completed!!
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
roughrider
4 valves
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by roughrider »

How exciting! You're rolling now! I am really looking forward to hearing your thoughts after you play the completed horn for the first time!
1930 King "Symphony" Recording Bass BBb
1916 Holton "Mammoth" Upright Bass BBb
1994 King 2341 Upright Bass BBb
Wedge H2 Solo mouthpieces
Stofer-Geib mouthpieces
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by BrassedOn »

Impressive project. I'm with you on the finish. Need not be fabulous. I'm rid of my last silver plate horn, I have a trombone with sterling silver bell which I never shine, and it looks it, great, and another horn in satin silver aging nicely. Bah to polished silver, yeah for raw brass. Just stripped the last remnants off a Bach 42.


RE: patina....Over on TromboneChat, there are a couple threads on accelerating patina from eggs, vinegar, ammonia, to using a range of chemical reactions, to Palmolive dish soap. I'd try soap first because I think it can be controlled easily and no toxins. Another suggests a wax, to slow the patina formation but ends ultimately in more even patina. I've heard it mentioned before to once you do a patina treatment and rinse or whatever to complete the process, to leave it as long as you can (weeks) before handling to get the most even, deep patina. Like a good base finish before adding the effects of sweat.
https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... tina#p7795" target="_blank

This is basically the mechanics of making a patina. Ingredients may differ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vysWjIEYaQk" target="_blank

Some lacquer after they get the patina they want, to stabilize. Others let it continue to age.
Another way to go is brushed brass finish then cover in lacquer, your forte. Lawlor does this on his trombones. Shires too? I think there might be some online video for that. But much more work on a tuba, especially after assembly.
https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... ish#p62878" target="_blank
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by BrassedOn »

For some reason, "I've Got a Lovely Bunch of Cocoanuts" song came to mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf670orHKcA" target="_blank" target="_blank

Okay, then I'll admit, having a well aged patina is as much as an aesthetic choice as having highly polished silver, either can be fabulous. In their own ways, they are asking for a long term dedication on the part of the player, with one requiring more labor intensive and the other extreme patience.

Again, great build thread.
"Do less, better."
19xx? Blessing Sousaphone BBb
1977 Fender P Bass
1970s King 3b Silver Sonic
1987 Bach 42BO
1990 Getzen 1062 Bass Trombone (Stacked, Dependent)
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Re: Holton 345 Redux

Post by bort »

Principal horn = your wife?! :)

(Jk, obviously you would have just said "my wife")
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