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I have an old helicon that is not lacquered. I would like to buff it and maybe give it a coating of a good wax to shine it up and preserve it. So, what is the hand buffing procedure and recommended products to do this?

Thanks for your comments. The wax I was planing on using was the renaissance wax, if you didn't have a better suggestion. Lee Stofer has suggested using auto wax on lacquered horns. I have used that on silver horns after polishing with silver polish and a good cleaning with dish soap. It seems to greatly reduce the black silver oxide that seems to keep coming off and gets all over clothes and hands. I was going to avoid pledge because that is basically an oil on the surface and will come off easily.

I have used renaissance wax on several metal objects in the past with very good luck. It does not have much of a shine to it, but it does do a good job of protecting the metal. It was developed by the British Museum for use on all sorts of things. It is reportedly used on medieval armor wit great success. The key to success is to use very little and do small areas at a time.

I was thinking of polishing. I do not have a buffer nor do I have experience with one, although I was considering something attached to an electric drill. I guess I'll pass on that idea. I will try your polishing compound suggestion with the old cotton cloth. I have the time and can work on it slowly. The Renaissance wax does say it is a polish too, I might try a small area to see if that does anything first.

Well I tried using just renaissance wax on a small area. It did not do anything to brighten the finish. The patina is not very pleasant on this horn. I'm sure this is due to a long history of poor storage by a previous owner. I'm trying to get to a more even and less blotchy look. So, my plan now is to order the Simichrome and work on areas as I can, eventually covering the whole horn. Next I'll clean the surface and coat with Renaissance Wax. I'll post as progress is made. I'll try to add pictures as I can.

As I'm sure you have discovered Renaissance Wax is a preservative finish, it will do nothing to change the current patina - other than slow down the rate of further discolouration. I'm a big fan of Ren Wax - once a horn is polished it is a great finish. It doesn't stop gradual patination (it's a wax not a lacquer) but it does mean that the finish changes much slower - and importantly it doesn't feel waxy.

Cheers

Cam

bloke wrote:Going to all the trouble to remove all the patina from a big tuba, and then to only protect it with wax (rather than a designed-for-metal clear lacquer), is a who bunch of work for very short-lived results.

Just shine it all up, go over it with a bunch of silver polishing cloths, gently go over everything with an old soft T-shirt or flannel - striving to leave no dust or residue (all of this, assuming "no buffing machine"), buy one gallon each of Nikolas 2105 lacquer, thinner, and retarder, take it to a body shop (along with a spare "trashed" instrument they can use for practice), and have them mix the lacquer up for spraying, and spray your intrument in their booth. They really shouldn't charge you very much to do that, particularly, if you tell them that you won't ask them to re-do it if they get a run or two in the finish.

Your polish job, most likely, won't look professional, but at least it will last with lacquer over it.

(If the body shop's spray booth is humidity-controlled, you won't need to purchase any drying retarder...only lacquer and thinner.)

Good suggestions!

Bloke, have you ever tried using anything other than Nikolaus? Do any of the Hardware store variety (Watco, Minwax, krylon, etc) lacquers work?

bloke wrote:Again, polishing up a tuba is so much work that I just don't understand why anyone would want to save &20 or $30 on a protective finish - once the polishing job is done.

Doing a second rate polishing job is one thing, but then to put a third-rate coating over it is yet another.

Valid points, my reason for asking was this: Nikolaus isn't available north of the border. Thus, for an experiment it would require me ordering it, getting an account from a border delivery place and then driving the 2 hr r-t to get it. The only product I found available that is a brass Nitrocellulose lacquer is this: http://www.mohawk-finishing.com/catalog ... ictNbr=452" target="_blank and it still requires me to place an order I na hardware store so they can get it from a distributor.

Both those options seem like too much effort (or not enough guarantee that it will work) to me since I am not planning of polishing/refinishing a whole horn.

There are a couple threads on woodworking or lutherie forums about other Canadians having issues with this, but nothing really conclusive.

Most of the lacquers available here seem to be acrylic based and not nitrocellulose.

If something were available locally for $7-8 a can I would use it to coat unpolished raw brass areas on a couple horns I have (mostly contact points).

I don't like the feel, nor the smell of raw brass but have no qualms about the look.

Thanks!

I'll keep looking.

Silver spray paint it is!!!

Well, I got some simichrome and tried it on the 3rd valve slide. I did clean the slide afterward and then applied renaissance wax. Here is a picture of the slide next to the horn that depicts my starting situation. As you can see, it did shine things up a bunch. I don't mind it not lasting a shorter time frame, but the horn does need some evening out. It didn't take very long to do this little bit, but the whole horn will take several hours. I found that if I put a coating on the area and let it set a minute, it does a better job of removing the tarnish. It will take a lot of rags to complete this project. The image doesn't suggest things are in bad shape, but there are other parts of the horn that look really blotchy. I might try the bell next.

opus37 wrote:The image doesn't suggest things are in bad shape, but there are other parts of the horn that look really blotchy. I might try the bell next.

Well then post a picture of the whole thing!

But that slide does look great! I've got Mother's Aluminum polish, which I heard was a preferred polish by some here, but I might have to get some Simichrome now too.

I've made some progress, but this is slow work. I hope to be done by April 7th when I'll be playing this Helicon next. I've found that it seems to work best if I wear thin vinyl gloves and use my finger to work the simichrome around a bit. That seems to help remove the more stubborn tarnish prior to wiping it off until bright. Then I wash the area and apply a coat of renaissance wax. I have a 1912 Martin in silver. I used to policy it each year to get it back in shape for the summer band season. Two years ago I polished it and then cleaned and then used renaissance wax. It hasn't tarnished since and I do not have the period of silver oxide continually coming off the horn. I'm hoping this process works the same way.

In these pictures I have completed the 3rd valve circuit and the inside of the bell. It's a bit hard to see the bright finish, but in person it is striking.

It is snowing today so I took the time to polish the bell. This is slow work, but very rewarding.

Anyone have any info about when an old brass horn turns red? Is this what they call red rot?

Is this impossible to polish out?

That requires paint.

Out of sight, out of mind!!

Frank Ortega wrote:Anyone have any info about when an old brass horn turns red? Is this what they call red rot?

Is this impossible to polish out?

There were some large reddish areas on the bell on this helicon. They polished out with the simichrome. I looked carefully inside the bell and saw nothing there so this was a surface issue. I don't know if this is red rot or not, but it did come off, so I would say it is worth a try on your horn.