6/4 Eb tuba

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TheodoreSmith
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6/4 Eb tuba

Post by TheodoreSmith »

has anyone cut a 6/4 tuba bugle to Eb and paired it with a Eb valve set? I think it would be super cool to have a giant 40"+ Eb tuba, but I don't know how that would play out?

TIA -Theo
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by DCottrell »

Too rapid taper after the main TS will mess up the low range and intonation. Eb tubas have been around a long time, and the very best instruments in that voice (Willson 3400 and various Besson offerings) still have a relatively small diameter in the bottom bow and bell throat. My experience leads me to think that Eb tubas won't provide the "6/4" experience ( fluffy fat sound, very responsive to the player) without compromising intonation or low range playability. It isn't really intended for that purpose.

Evidence to support this abound in examples of "Monster" Eb tubas by Conn, York, Holton. They sound great (above the first partial), but really don't play well below C or Bb, and they almost always had 3 valves originally, indicating they were not meant to be low voices (there were BBb's for that purpose). I think they were more marketing than R&D
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by Tubajug »

**Looks like DCottrell beat me to it, but here's what I wrote:**

I'm by no means an expert, most of what I "know" I've read about here and other places. From what I've read, tubas with short bugles (Eb and F) tend to have wonky intonation when the taper of the bugle expands very rapidly, as would have to happen to get it to a "6/4" sized Eb.

My H.N. White King Medium has excellent intonation, it's only about 32" tall and has a 15" bell.

Does that mean I don't want to see someone try it? If course not! I love seeing people tackle projects!
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by KingBassTrombone »

I think that the quarter sizing is relative. A 4/4 Eb is smaller than a 4/4 BBb. By that logic, in my own mind I consider "Monster" Eb's (Conn, York, etc.) and the King 1235 Eb to be 6/4 Eb tubas as they often share a general body size with their BBb counterparts.
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by bort »

Not what you are talking about, but it reminded me of this:

https://youtu.be/iL6PWDkUZ4U" target="_blank
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by Matt G »

A Holton 345 or similar cut to Eb would be a sight to behold.

Because of the rate of bugle taper, the builder would probably have to use a piston set and start with a 0.689 1st and taper to a 0.787 4th. 5th would probably be best tacked on after the pistons just because waiting until after the main tuning slide would require a rather large bore.

There’s probably a way to make the bugle have decent pitch, but the timbre is probably going to be nearly monotonic. Like making a flugelhorn sizzle on a lead trumpet part.

8/4 Eb tuba aside, it’s possibly informative, as mentioned above, that many of the old monster Eb tubas get converted to contrabass as opposed to side action 4+1 bass tubas. I owned an old York monster (stencil) that was decently in tune but the (top action) valves had seen better days so the pitch center was pretty darn wide. I thought the low register and false tone register was pretty good on the example I had and it could handle most quintet literature without issue with only three valves.

But a smaller contrabass still worked better.
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by groovlow »

hrender wrote:This happened to show up today. It’s also not exactly what you asked about, but it’s listed as a 6/4 Eb.
Ewe sold one like this about 2 years ago, a 3 rotor? for 1.5k. I was interested, description said playable,
I wound up getting a Buescher Eb helicon instead.

Wessex has a big Eb planned I think modeled after this, I recon as big as can be without going to EEb
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gg56mOt ... e=youtu.be[/youtube]
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by UDELBR »

That's not the one they're building.
groovlow wrote: Wessex has a big Eb planned I think modeled after this, I recon as big as can be without going to EEb
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by TheodoreSmith »

the chopping part is the most concerning
Last edited by TheodoreSmith on Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by roweenie »

DCottrell wrote:Evidence to support this abound in examples of "Monster" Eb tubas by Conn, York, Holton. They sound great (above the first partial), but really don't play well below C or Bb
Maybe true for the examples you've played - in fact, those notes (C, B, Bb) are some of the best notes I've experienced on them.
and they almost always had 3 valves originally, indicating they were not meant to be low voices (there were BBb's for that purpose).
Quite the contrary. They were sold specifically for this purpose - "the sound quality of a BBb in an Eb tuba size and price".

As to the original topic, I didn't answer because I honestly thought it might be a troll..... :tuba:

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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by Matt G »

Just posted today...

https://www.facebook.com/26302661704394 ... 76799/?d=n" target="_blank
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by groovlow »

[quote="UncleBeer"]That's not the one they're building.

Thanks for the clarification! I really enjoy the performance and piece; complements to the audio video crew!

I appreciate the progress of Wessex designs, and handmade building.
Thanks Matt G for the Wessex link (Eb prototype). Looks "purty 'Mercan" to me. Hope it throws some bass & colour in my favorite bugle length. Looking forward to a play test...
1920s big Eb tones and easy pitch modern playability. 8) :tuba:
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by roweenie »

I'm sorely tempted to give it (.748/19mm valveset on an E flat monster) a try.

Specifically interested in the "4th valve" range....

I only wish I could try Uncle Beer's prototype first. I've got a suitable dogleg with the correct taper all ready to go for the project - all I need now is a little courage...... :oops: tuba:
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Re: 6/4 Eb tuba

Post by Wyvern »

I have played Carl’s Eb and the one Chuck Nickles developed on which the new Wessex is based, but at different times, so difficult to directly compare, but I would say they are pretty comparable. Not surprising, as the bodies are very similar dimensions, and the valve blocks exactly the same bore. I hope the new Wessex will play even better, as it will be fully handcrafted from sheet brass. The wait to try is killing me, but unfortunately no way to travel to the factory at this time.

I am particularly excited by this model, as I can see it will be a tuba I will play a lot myself in band and orchestra, as being British, I still think Eb is the most useful key of tuba.

We plan to have the new Wessex TE668HP 6/4 Eb at Army Conference and TMEA 2021 (assuming they take place) for you to try and decide for yourself.
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