SOLD Rudy Meinl 5/4 CC

[bort]

Ted's photo makes the tuba look normal-sized. These things are, in reality, huge. And for as big as they are, they never struck me as bring air hogs. And also, surprisingly easy and comfortable to hold (sorry Matt G, but the 2165 has always been a really difficult tuba for me to try to hold...)

Years ago, bloke put a smaller leadpipe on one of these, and said it gave way better control (or something), and maybe like 5% less output. Seems like maybe a good way to split the difference, if the bore is scary for anyone.

Ted, if I knew you were going to sell this tuba to get that 164, I very well might have bought it from you. I love my 163, and everything worked out awesomely with that... But the Rudy 5/4 has always been on my short list, and may have been too much for me to resist.

As for price, Ted's price is Ted's price. If you're interested, talk to him. He's a nice person! Frankly, I think a lot of these have sold for less than they should have. And remember ... Gasp... Some people actually buy these things NEW.

[Matt G]

Bort, absolutely right about the size. A 5/4 RM CC isn’t much more to handle in the lap than a 188. Good point about scaling.

And yeah, the 2165 is not tiny! When I switch between the horns I have now, the 4/4 feels like my old YFB-621 felt after tooting my old 188 for a while.

[bort]

As a former 188 owner and longtime proponent, I definitely agree with that.

I owned a Rudy 4/4 CC for a little while, and regret selling that one, too. The thing with Rudy tubas, IMO, is that they do best with what I call "player maintenance." If you play regularly, you will be rewarded and unlock the potential of the tuba. If you play once in a while... Might not be as easy when you first pick up the horn. Also, never judge the sound of a Rudy in a small room. Play in a hall, a church, even outside... And you'll see quickly what it's all about.

And as important as anything else, the Rudy 5/4 is a gorgeous tuba. Again, Ted... I'm glad I bought my Alex, but you're killing me with this Rudy!

[Ted Cox]

My friend, mentioned in an earlier post, bought the Rudy and invited me over one afternoon to play it AND an MRP. We both picked the Rudy over the MRP - mainly for the sound - although the MRP was quite nice. My friend has far more experience with Rudy Meinl's than I do and he bought the horn I'm selling for 8K. I felt the horn could be improved by taking the leadpipe off the bell, so I had Martin Wilk do the work. While the pipe was off the bell, Martin rounded it out, removed every tiny dent and patched a suspect potential leak. Martin also took off the water key and put the most amazing patch on the hole on the tuning slide. He also rounded out the tuning slide and aligned the valves. He replaced the springs and spent a little time on the bell doing so minor clean up. Martin's labor for a full day of work, plus the gas over, two nights in a motel and meals, put the trip well over 1K.

Martin's work was well worth the money - no question. The Rudy I'm selling plays far better than before Martin worked on it. Seriously, I never thought the horn would play that well after what Martin did - it seemed so "minor". So, I'm into the horn over 9K.

It's an excellent tuba - and what I was looking for in the orchestra - not all the time, but on certain rep. Then, an Alex 164 showed up mid-March and I was intrigued enough to have it sent up from Houston. IF you've not lived on an Alex for 3 decades and you try and play the 164, odds are you won't like it - it requires a bit of patience. What the 164 does is expose a players weaknesses. It exposed mine - which only means I have plenty to work on during my time off from the orchestra.

[AGuti95]

If only someone would buy my horn off of me! Its either a 2165, an Eastman 836 or a Rudy 5/4. I own a 3/4 Rudy and it is magical. Sound doesnt break or anything. The one 5/4 Rudy I played was Calvin Jenkins Rudy. He has an AGR on it and he says it really helped to figure out slot points on his horn.

[Ted Cox]

Okay, back to the top.

[Ted Cox]

And, again.

[Ted Cox]

Perhaps this time.

[Ted Cox]

Mr. Elephant, I feel your pain. My relationship with Rudy wasn't a committed relationship - and alas, something else caught my attention. The only honorable thing to do was break up with Rudy so that I could pursue my love of Alexander. In the end, it was me and not Rudy, and she'll find someone when the time is right. It sucks being on the other end of a break-up, but I'm confident someone will lover her every bit as much as she deserves. I should never have strayed from Alexander.

[Ted Cox]

Yes, I've heard this so many times before. People break up with the old Alex for something newer - dare I say, sexier. But long term relationships require depth and character - from both parties. Healthy relationships take work and commitment - and from that comes the long-term reward - a "sound" relationship that everyone benefits from. Especially those around them. My break-up was clean - no late night long tones when Alex was put away. Yes, there was one very brief side-by-side comparison, but I'm a gentleman, so I'll leave those details out.

[happyroman]

Bump for Ted

[Ted Cox]

Bump for price change.

[Ted Cox]

bump

[Ted Cox]

Lot's of tiring kicking. Great horn - great price.

[happyroman]

Glad you were able to sell this, Ted. Good luck with the Alex family!

[Ted Cox]

Thanks Andy,
It had to sell eventually - right?
Rudy shipped out yesterday to its new owner (he's excited - as we all are when the "new" tuba finally arrives).
The 164 is evolving daily. I'll finally get a chance to play it with a brass ensemble this week in a big room.
It's too bad this model has the reputation that it does. Whatever weakness one has in their playing, the 164 quickly points it out in no uncertain terms. Most will put the horn down and blame the instrument - few will recognize what is actually happening and address those areas of weakness in their own playing. The reward for the hard work is well worth the sacrifice of hearing your playing under a microscope for a few weeks/months. Little by little the 164 reveals its potential on an almost daily basis. Most every day I play my first notes on one of my two 163's, just to get my face and air working. Then, I switch over to the 164 and smile inside, because it's so damn beautiful. The horn makes me want to practice - to explore where we can go next in our journey of sound. From low E on down to the fundamental, it's by far the most responsive low end I've ever experienced. Yes, there are alternates and a 5th valve is a MUST. The kicker on the main tuning slide is absolutely necessary - spring loaded and as quick as the valves. There are really only 6 notes I use it for. Low D and Db are two of the six. Once you have such a device, you wonder how you ever got along without one. Also, I cut an inch off the first valve tuning slide - a somewhat drastic modification - but it solved a lot of intonation problems. Odds are those who read this will never see a 164 nor have the chance to play one. Its reputation will continue to be handed down - dismissed as a serious instrument out of ignorance. The timing with the pandemic and summer has turned out to be a blessing in disguise as far as having time and energy to explore the 164 and my playing. Stop repeating what others have told you and find out for yourself - and I'm not just talking about a tuba.

[MikeMason]

Ted, would a b flat 164 solve some of the issues while giving most of the upside? How big is the sound difference between a b flat and a c 164?

[Ted Cox]

Alexander tubas 2.jpg

Mike,
Good questions that are almost impossible for me to answer with any certainty - because I have never played a Bb 164.
Alexander has been making both BBb and CC 164's for over 100 years (see photo). There is some "myth" around BBb's being cut into CC's causing the intonation problems found.
As with many CC tubas, G first line is typically flat. This is the case on all three of my Alexander CC's. Having the first slide shortened by an inch, I can now play that G one and three in tune. Because the "kicker" is so well engineered, it's much easier to move the main slide with the kicker than fuss with moving the first valve slide - so F below the bottom line of the staff and Bb second line are brought in tune with the main slide kicker - if that makes sense. It's logical that the BBb 164's have related pitch issues, a whole step lower. (Eb, F, Ab)
The bigger the tuba and bore size, the bigger the intonation problems - generally. As I stated earlier, everything is magnified from the 163 - including the amount of sound. Sitting behind the 164 and playing it, to me it feels like twice the sound as a 163. It's MORE - and it's so far, exactly what I've been looking for.
Of course I would love to play a BBb, just for grins and comparison to the CC - but I doubt I'll ever have two 164's in the same room. And even then, does a 5 valve BBb exist? I've been calling the 164 a "unihorn" - a mythical beast that really does exist. The level of craftmanship on my 2004 164 is astounding. Alexander only builds what is bought - they don't produce inventory. You can't go to Mainz and play a dozen 164's. If there is anything to play, consider yourself lucky. My overall point is this model shouldn't be dismissed because of stories heard. The 164 is not a point and shoot tuba - they take time and patience, the same as the 163's and the F tubas. The reward for the investment of time and patience is a sound that is clear, rich, and unique.