Orchestral Repertoire Books

vince · Post by **vince** » Tue May 18, 2004 7:22 pm

Hi! I made a couple of month ago a ''home made'' orchestral excerpt book for me and students/ tubists here in Quebec city. I now have 2 extra books for sell.

The book is in fact divised in three (Tome 1,2&3). It contains over 750 pages of complete tuba parts. (Include 1st & 2nd tubas and euphonium part ).

I sell it 70$USD + shipping. I don't make money with that. You pay what i paid to made copy for student.

Email me for more info.

vincent_roy75@hotmail.com

Thanks!

Vince

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue May 18, 2004 7:47 pm

"...it's a little bit illegal." Is that anything like being "a little" pregnant? I guess being a little bit illegal and saying that it is being done "for educational use" is somewhat like saying "I am a little pregnant and I did it for recreational purposes only."

While I have some disagreement with the copyright law, I have to wonder how well all of that would hold up in court.

jsswadley · Post by **jsswadley** » Wed May 19, 2004 3:22 pm

What's really wrong with reproducing individual orchestral parts for study purposes? If you copied them out from a full score in your own hand or with a computer that's not illegal at all. This is very different from copying a rental score and performing it. John

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Wed May 19, 2004 3:45 pm

Actually, it may be illegal. It depends upon whether or not the music is still under copyright protection. I am not a copyright expert, however I do have a certain amount of knowledge on the subject. Certainly, some works in the common orchestral excerpt area are in the public domain. Copying these would be quite legal. Those that are under copyright protection would be quite illegal.

I speak of the law, here. I didn't say I have never broken the law. Selling copies of things such as this is one thing I have not done. Speaking as one who has some things under copyright protection, I can tell you that my attitude about violating this principle has changed. I have had a student show up for a lesson with me with photocopied parts of items I have arranged which are under copyright protection. His band direction made copies and passed them out to be performed at a concert. Now that can make for a very interesting feeling. I assure you of that.

As has been stated before on the TubeNet: Copying works which are under copyright is, in effect, stealing. Does our society have thieves in it? You be the judge.

Mark N. · Post by **Mark N.** » Thu May 20, 2004 1:20 am

Even though I do agree with some that he is probably not looking to profit from selling this excerpt book, it is still illegal and wrong. (I should say more than likely illegal since I don't know what specific excerpts he has included and whether they are copyrighted).

One of the ways I see it is even though he is not profitting for its sale, the compilers of tuba excerpt books who have paid for the rights to compile their books are the ones losing in this transaction. Basically, they go to all the the trouble and cost of seeking the legal means to produce their books and then get undersold essentially by books like these that are made and sold.

I am not going to sit here and attest to never having copied a tuba part and keeping it for my and my students benefit. But advertising the sale of a excerpt compilation book is probably not very smart in the long run. It does make me question my own ethics even though I have spent hundreds of dollars for such books legally.

Mark

luke_hollis · Post by **luke_hollis** » Thu May 20, 2004 10:17 am

Actually, it is illegal and a copyright infringement. But in law there is what is termed an affirmative defense of fair use. Where copying is explictly banned on the document itself in any form, then you really can't copy it without infringing on the copyright. But where it is merely a copyrighted work which you copy solely for your own educational personal use, that would be fair use and there isn't much the copyright owner can do. It is similar to making a copy of a CD you bought for yourself so you can have one at home and one in the car. You haven't really purchased the material itself, but more like a license to use it in a manner permissible by copyright law. A school or orchestra performance, even if educational, does not qualify for fair use as it infringes on another copyright right, namely the right to public performance. That is why schools can't copy music and then perform it.

Does this help?

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:04 pm

luke_hollis@yahoo.com wrote:...But where it is merely a copyrighted work which you copy solely for your own educational personal use, that would be fair use and there isn't much the copyright owner can do...

I agree that if there are no damages then there's nothing for the copyright owner can get in a lawsuit.

But fair use in terms of copyright law isn't quite as liberal as you describe. Fair use allows copying excerpts for the purposes of critical review or education. This would not apply, I don't think, to whole parts that could be used in a performance in lieu of buying or renting the real part. But it is what allows Cliff Bevan to quote 8 or 10 measures of the Bydlo solo to use as an example in his book on tubas, or someone else to include a short passage in a review. The key is whether the copied item has value on its own beyond the claimed fair use. If it does, then fair use is hard to defend.

In any case, Gordon Cherry has published nearly if not all the public domain tuba and trombone parts in the repertoire, and made them available on CD for about the price of this offering. All these works precede 1923, which is the latest copyright year that has clearly lapsed into the public domain.

It stinks that so much work is no longer available in print even though it is still protected by copyright. But the only thing that can bring something out of print is demand, and demand for those out-of-print publications is utterly undermined by everyone having a photocopy.

Rick "who thinks this one falls under an important maxim: Do Not Break The Rules Before Learning Them" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu May 20, 2004 3:08 pm

manganaro wrote:well I for one refuse to wait around for the excerpt books to include pieces like Pictures...

Many of the parts can be ordered from services that deal with orchestral parts, such as Luck's Music Service. But you have to ask.

And the tuba part for Pictures at an Exhibition is available on the Gordon Cherry CD. That work is now in the public domain, so you can copy it without feeling guilty.

Rick "wondering what happened to the concept of discretion" Denney

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