RVW Concerto for Tuba by Bill Bell Recorded 1955

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PhilipJ
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Post by PhilipJ »

I'm very curious as to why Mr. Bell would have played the piece on a cut-down POS and not on the pretty little F horn that H.N. White had made for him. Any info?
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Post by PhilipJ »

Yes, it made it into the 7k range with Dr. Newberger, I believe, as the high bidder, though the reserve was not met.
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Post by Mikelynch »

As the current owner of the F tuba in question, I thought I'd weigh in on the instrument. I think some of my prior observations on the horn may have been slightly misinterpreted.

The F almost certainly at least started from basic E-flat parts. I have seen similar-sized White/King E-flats, though I have not personally seen one in front action configuration, only top action.

I think the horn plays fairly well, provided that one keeps in mind what it is--by any standards, a very small F tuba with 4 valves. It has a .610 bore, and a 14" bell. As can be seen from the pictures of the horn with Mr. Bell, the bugle stays relatively small all the way through, and there's quite a lot of final flare to the bell to get to that 14".

I don't think many of us would decide this was "the F" for our playing today. It's tends to the stuffy side, and in that regard is very sensitive to mouthpiece selection, perhaps the most sensitive horn I've ever experienced in that sensitivity. With the wrong mouthpiece, it can be horribly stuffy. The sound is not that big, and could be confused with a euphonium on some recordings. However, Harvey Phillips told me of playing Symphony Fantastique with Mr. Bell, and being quite startled with how loud Bell was playing the horn. I have not played it with any group, but I would think that played loud, the sound would really project. The horn doesn't have all the warmth we might look for today from a small solo-type F (not withstanding my general comparison to a euphonium), but is pleasant in its own right. The intonation is really pretty good (much better than I expected), and it's an agile instrument.

The instrument was previously owned by Ralph Hepola, and he has a CD recorded with this horn. There are samples from the CD on his web page, for those who are interested. I'll also recommend purchase of Ralph's CD.

So while the horn has it's limitations, it's probably safe to say that those of us who have been interested in the instrument for a while are interested because of its connection with Mr. Bell, not because of our need for an F. And for that connection-- a one of a kind horn made specifically for him, that he owned for almost 30 years, and recorded on, including the US premiere of the V-W, the pedigree is pretty good.

Mr. Bell's horns don't have a uniform history of being great instruments by any means. This may have been one of the best in some ways. As an aside, it can be very humbling to play horns that really fine players have used and sounded great on, and to find out just what remarkable players they really were given the limitations of some of the equipment. Of course, it can also be educational to learn about some of the remarkable properties of many earlier horns that aren't found in the current offerings available to us.

I hope this clarifies the nature of the instrument somewhat.

It really was quite an undertaking to get this recording, and to make it available to us. I have known of the existence of the recording for a while, and have been tantalized by its existence, yet unavailability. For any of us interested in the history of the instrument and the great players who preceeded us, this is an essential recording. And while we're all at it, it's worth going back to listen again to the quality of tone on Bill Bell Plays the Tuba.

Mike Lynch
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Post by Mikelynch »

Understood...

And some of the difference in opinion may come from a difference in perspective. Ralph was playing the horn professionally, though not exclusively. This isn't a horn that gives one a lot of help in achieving the sound concept one has in their head. But Ralph sounds good on the CD. Ralph did have a couple of mouthpieces that helped a lot. Though I have found one I like better.

Not having to earn money with the horn, I play it to hear what sound the horn wants to make. Heck, it's even older than me-- it's got to be even less willing to adapt. No sense frustrating us both by trying to impose my will on it!

Mike Lynch
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Rick Denney
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Re: RVW Concerto for Tuba by Bill Bell Recorded 1955

Post by Rick Denney »

Legendary Artists wrote:Everyone needs to remember that this was recorded in 1955, there had never been a real tuba concerto and he was playing on a POS horn. In addition, Mr. Bell was never known for his outstanding upper register and this was not recorded at the top of his career.
I have a recording of Philip Catelinet playing the RVW in 1954. The recording was made the day following the premiere. Catelinet played the Besson compensating F tuba (not a Barlow F), which is probably not unlike Bill Bell's little F in many ways.

And that recording, by current standards, is really sub-par. Technially, the player sounds like a modern amateur--more articulation than note. I was quite surprised by it.

What also surprised me was that the weakness of the musical interpretation. The notes were clipped, there was very little dynamic shaping, and none of the humor of the piece came through at all. It sounded as though Catelinet was really struggling with it.

I had concluded that Catelinet must have been are pretty unimpressive tuba player. But if Bell's recording of the work at the same time also has problems, then that might temper my criticism a bit.

It would appear that the Vaughan Williams concerto is perhaps a bit more musically challenging that we think, from this perspective of having a series of excellent and very different versions of it on record. I wonder if Bell was able to correspond with the composer at all before his U.S. premiere? Dr. Vaughan Williams might have found a more capable collaborator in Bell than with Catelinet.

And the notion of large, deep-sounding F tubas is also a relatively recent phenomenon. In the article on Helleberg that someone posted the other day, they show pictures of Danish tuba players into the 50's who were using F tubas modeled quite closely on the original Moritz tuba designed by Wieprecht from the 1830's. The pictures showed a very narrow taper design, a bell well under 10 inches, and five valves. The tiny Barlow F tuba used in British orchestras was bigger by comparison, and the Alexander-style rotary used in Germany at the time would have been huge. Thus, Bell's F was probably thought to be normal to large, for an orchestral F, and the prevailing sound concept was likely very much smaller than today, even with an F. Catelinet's Besson compensator was certainly one of the largest F tubas on the market at the time.

We think these instruments sound like euphoniums, but I think it would be more accurate to say that the euphoniums of today sound like the orchestral F tubas of the past.

I want one of these recordings. In the context of the recordings of the day, I'll bet it's still world-class.

Rick "who thinks the RVW defies the 'simple' category into which it is often relegated" Denney
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Post by SirCharls »

Ladies and Gentlemen,

That was a great exchange in the overall...

Very informative and entertaining.

Thanks,

Charles D. Ortega
Principal Tuba, Colorado Springs Philharmonic Orchestra
Principal Tuba, Apollo Chamber Brass
Tuba-Euphonium Instructor- Colorado State University-Pueblo
------------------------------
https://sircharlso.wixsite.com/apollochamberbrass
Mark

Post by Mark »

Image

Here is the photo of Bell and the F tuba.
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Post by PhilipJ »

Just got my CD today; how wonderful, and interesting! I was surprised to read that the DAT was copied from the original reel-to-reel recording of the concert; Dr. Nowicke had mentioned in a previous thread that the original recording was preserved on an acetate transcription phonograph disc, and I shuddered at the thought of the poor fidelity. It turns out that someone decided to fire up the Ampex 300 and make a magnetic backup as well. I'm grateful. Wonderful CD, and great background information. Thanks.
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Re: RVW Concerto for Tuba by Bill Bell Recorded 1955

Post by pjdicris »

I hate to resurrect a 10-year old thread but...

Has anyone gotten a hold on this recently? If so, where? Thank you!
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Re: RVW Concerto for Tuba by Bill Bell Recorded 1955

Post by TWScott283 »

Would anyone possibly be able to upload a copy of the program, and the recording?

Sorry to uproot this thread (again).

edit: I am assuming it is no longer possible to order these through the original post.
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Re: RVW Concerto for Tuba by Bill Bell Recorded 1955

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