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Hello! I'm helping a friend sell their tuba. It's a Scherzer/Sander CC tuba. 4 valves. The only modification that I can see is that the linkages were changed out to the strong DuBro ones. To the best of my knowledge, these were made by VMI/B&S and imported into the United States. There are a few shallow dents, but overall the horn is in great shape. The writing on the bell wreath is:

SCHERZER
Jnh. SANDER
Augsburg

The receiver has "made in w Germany."

She's selling because she wants to switch back to a BBb tuba, so trades are accepted. She'd love a good King 2341. She's asking $3,500 or best reasonable offer. Feel free to email me at tylerferris1213@gmail.com" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank for more information and pictures. I'm located in Cleveland, and can drive a reasonable distance to meet a potential buyer.

Pictures:
https://ibb.co/8mY7r7F" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
https://ibb.co/C9tyNTw" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
https://ibb.co/RyyLt4r" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
https://ibb.co/RYD8ZpK" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

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You need photos of the horn. Without that you probably won't get anything but questions. I'm interested but can't tell anything about the finish or the model.

Custom Music imported these horns for almost ten years, they were marketed to be as good as a Miraphone but priced a little under. I know that Neal Tidwell played a spectacular 5-valve CC Sanders with TITANIUM rotors for his entire career.

https://youtu.be/Gs2_0g2q3d8" target="_blank Neal Tidwell was an amazing tubist. If this horn sounds anything like this one that Neal used for this recording, I'll buy it! jk..

Pictures have been uploaded to the original post!

That's gorgeous. Looks a lot like a Meinl Weston 30. Worth every penny of $3,500 IMO.

My wife would shoot me if I bought this... But this is a great looking tuba

I worked in New Orleans from 78' to 83'.Neal was with the symphony and had a five night a week job on Bourbon St. with what used to be the Your Father's Mustache band at Houlihan's Oyster Bar. I was his sub on that so I heard him a lot and took lessons with him for about eight months. He had three horns at that time. The Scherzer,a Mirafone 184C, and a big rotary lacquered Hirsbrinner that he got while I was in town. He mostly played the Scherzer but he started using the Hirsbrunner on big stuff in the orchestra. And when I heard him in the quintet he used the Mirafone. Also for Bydlo. No F, no Eb, and always the great sound. He could very well be playing the Mirafone on that recording. I wish I could ask him. The one you want to trade looks like a real winner. Good luck with the deal.Ed

bort wrote:That's gorgeous. Looks a lot like a Meinl Weston 30. Worth every penny of $3,500 IMO.

My wife would shoot me if I bought this... But this is a great looking tuba

Thank you for the kind words! This really is a great tuba. I would have bought it from her if I didn't already have my dream 4/4 CC.

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If this is half as good as my student's Scherzer F, this is worth double the price. Scherzer was the top-of the line for this maker.

There are oodles of benefits to the simplicity of a 4v CC, especially in quintet, etc. Weight savings, first. And they almost always play better than the 5v versions.

J.c.S. (who wishes he had the scratch!)

J.c. Sherman wrote:.... And they almost always play better than the 5v versions.

I'll believe you, but why is that? Do the extra constrictions through the valve and two inches stolen from the lead pipe or bugle make a difference?

Edit: never mind; there are plenty of old 4V vs 5V threads on TubeNet already.

I know you've done your search on TubeNet, but let me just add...

I learned CC on a 4v Alex, from a man who played on a 4v Alex (Ron Bishop). The system of tuning was simple: flat 4th valve, so the C# was right on the money. A slippery 1st slide made it so you played like a trumpet player except for low C# and F#. Otherwise, you played like a 3 valver.

More, Chuck Daellenbach has always been magnificent with 4 valves. Harvey Phillips, Bill Bell... 4 is enough for most applications, and it's simple, lighter, fewer braces, less resistance, etc.

Yes, my main concert beast (besides my Eb) is a 5v, CC and it's terrific. But for quintet and 1,000 other applications, I prefer my 4v CC. If I have a concerto for contrabassoon to play, sure I'll use something else. But it's never necessary.

Just $.02

[N.B. my 6/4 is a 4v BBb... tuned the same way - flat 4.]

4 valves is also less weight... And potentially better resonance.

Weight can make a big difference. My old handmade PT6 played WAY better when you used the shorter 5th valve slide, and I removed the 2nd valve kicker. It was about a 1 pound weight loss, and it improved resonance significantly

bort wrote:4 valves is also less weight... And potentially better resonance.

Weight can make a big difference. My old handmade PT6 played WAY better when you used the shorter 5th valve slide, and I removed the 2nd valve kicker. It was about a 1 pound weight loss, and it improved resonance significantly

Amen! Weight changes resonance... I think that's why few 184s with a fifth play anywhere near as well as my 2 4-valvers.

J.c. Sherman wrote:I know you've done your search on TubeNet, but let me just add...

I learned CC on a 4v Alex, from a man who played on a 4v Alex (Ron Bishop). The system of tuning was simple: flat 4th valve, so the C# was right on the money. A slippery 1st slide made it so you played like a trumpet player except for low C# and F#. Otherwise, you played like a 3 valver.
...
[N.B. my 6/4 is a 4v BBb... tuned the same way - flat 4.]

Thanks for the tips. I might try that tuning technique. I learned CC on a bargain 5v B&S stencil, in the past 6 months, from TubeNet. I learned 4V BBb in one college semester of tuba/euphonium ensemble, where there was not much attention to things like individual tuning so I might have never used the 4th valve (don't remember).