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Both wessex Eb's had scale issues that concerned me, didn't play either very long because of that

That's about all I can think of, I was in Eb mode today

Mark - Thanks for posting. Can you please clarify what you meant by "Scale issues". Curious as I'm in the market for an Eb. Were these the "Gnagey" and "Danube" models? Thanks.

58mark wrote:

Davidus1 wrote:Both wessex Eb's had scale issues that concerned me, didn't play either very long because of that

That's about all I can think of, I was in Eb mode today

Mark - Thanks for posting. Can you please clarify what you meant by "Scale issues". Curious as I'm in the market for an Eb. Were these the "Gnagey" and "Danube" models? Thanks.

yes, both of them had partials that were far enough out of tune that you could hear it right away, no tuner needed. I'm not talk about 10-15 cents either.

If others played them and had a better experience than I did, I'd like to hear their feedback

I realized this morning I didn't ever make it to the BMB booth. That's a shame because I really wanted to try their Eb. I asked them about it at TMEA and they didn't have one, and I forgot to check with them to see if they brought one

kicking myself

Thanks. That's good to know. Funny you mention BMB. That was the next horn I was going to inquire about. Hoping to get some feedback on it. Was thinking of getting a smallish 3/4 BBb but thinking Eb might be the route to go if I can find the right one at the right price. Thanks for the reply!

Mark, Everyone is entitled to their own views but I can tell you that your assessment on the new Wessex Eb's is way off that of at least three top professionals that tried. I don't want to attribute names without permission, but I mean players familiar with Eb that are highly respected, internationally renowned and were giving recitals at the conference. To quote one "don't change anything - it is perfect as it is!" and that was refering to the Gnagey Eb.

I will leave up to those individuals if they wish to post themselves.

Hearing Les Neish and James Gourlay made go "hmmm" concerning e flat comp tubas. Wow. They both really sounded great! Interesting,beautiful,clear sounds with a power low register when needed.What was it we Americans don't like about comp e flats again?(I did play an awful besson one a while back,but I now know it had issues)I tried the Packer/sterling Bloke had and it really was a fine horn. You can feel and hear the quality.i think I will really try to learn to play this Yamaha I own and maybe upgrade to a comp if I can figure it out. Summer project

The feedback and impressions are nice to hear. I guess we each have to play a horn and make our own call about it. Scale issues are concerning though.

Mark you have mentioned and detailed your experiences with your Prague. I'm a former piggy owner and play only BBb now. Would you be able to use the Prague in a solo setting? Just curious.

58mark wrote:

Davidus1 wrote:The feedback and impressions are nice to hear. I guess we each have to play a horn and make our own call about it. Scale issues are concerning though.

Mark you have mentioned and detailed your experiences with your Prague. I'm a former piggy owner and play only BBb now. Would you be able to use the Prague in a solo setting? Just curious.

as long as the valves are reliable, yes. It's a great sounding instrument that plays very well in tune without much muss or fuss. Think of it as a miraphone 186 in a more compact package, but that's only because it's wrapped a little different. The bore is the same, so anything the miraphone would be a good choice for, the prague would be as well.

That makes sense. Love the Miraphone but like the idea of a more compact horn with a little less presence in a quartet or solo setting. I liked the sound you were getting on the Youtube video. I haven't played an Eb or F Tuba in over 20 years and probably need to get someplace to play a few when my job schedule permits. The thought of learning a new fingering system isn't appealing but I know its doable. If I find a 3/4 BBb that I like I may go that direction. Thanks for the info!

58mark wrote:That doesn't mean I have to love every instrument in your lineup.

I don't expect you to like all our tubas and that is fair enough. I have just got to speak up when I know what you are reporting on public forum is so at odds to what professionals that really know their Eb tubas are saying. Unfortunately players of that standard rarely post - I guess they are too busy practising? However you will see the owner of the prototype Danube (which has smaller diameter bell) has posted - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72772" target="_blank

58mark wrote: Wessex front action compensating euphonium was very stuffy in the compensating range, hopefully that is something that can be fixed

Quite a lot of good euphonium players tried the front action euphonium. Conclusion was, although quite playable, the prototype is more stuffy in the compensated range than the 3+1 Dolce euphonium. We think that is due to an extra loop in the 4th valve tubing. Therefore we are going to remove that loop and more widely curve the 4th valve tubing to rectify. So thank you for that feedback.

ValveSlide wrote:I found them to be a lot of work in both pitch and response.

Were you actually at ITEC? Neither Andy or myself saw you at booth

I went to ITEC specifically to play Eb's, that's all I played, and I played a bunch.

I thought the Gnagey was as good as any, better than most, and a lot better than some.

Just my opinion and I'm not a pro.

My teacher was there and I asked him to try it the Gnagey, and he liked it.

Hup

58mark wrote:Some of these are new, some are new to me

Willson compact Eb. Spectacular, but heavy as a tank. Very comfortable to hold for a small horn

Besson 984. More clarity and punch than the 983, perfect intonation (or as close as possible) loved it

Both wessex Eb's had scale issues that concerned me, didn't play either very long because of that

Greetings 58Mark,

I recall your mouthpiece experimentation with your older Eb so I ask what mouthpiece you used with those Eb tubas you tried and any possible impact good or bad based on the mouthpiece used?

Thanks for your reports (and your TubeNet work.)

I really enjoyed playing the Gnagey Eb. I got a nice long ride on it without a ton of tubasterone around, and liked what I heard. I thought pitch was just fine. There were horns there that had deal-breakers, but this wasn't one of them. Had a Sellmansberger solo in for a while, and a PT-84 for the rest. (Not a misprint, the -84 is not common hardware.) Suuuuuuper easy horn to play, high and low, and quick response, too.

YMMV, but I'd be buying Sam a beer. That's a nice tuba.

I will add that I really liked the Alex 163 c at Horn Guy's booth. First 3 alexes I've played. Very resonant, well made horns as universally stated. The 163 they had was the pick of the litter. Wished for a quieter room to hear the sound quality.

MikeMason wrote:I will add that I really liked the Alex 163 c at Horn Guy's booth. First 3 alexes I've played. Very resonant, well made horns as universally stated. The 163 they had was the pick of the litter. Wished for a quieter room to hear the sound quality.

I was wondering about that horn....

That Alex 163 CC was great. The Alexander F tuba at Baltimore Brass sitting lonely in the back corner was my favorite tuba at ITEC. Someone already had their name on it though....

I was hoping to play the new 2016 Conn 40k but it wasn't there. Hopefully it'll be at NERTEC next year.

It's been too long since a tuba has been up to my chops so I stuck with euphoniums.

First the Adams, with which I'm most familiar, had 2 new experiences for me. The brought a prototype with valves that were top sprung (my suggestion) and short action. That was great fun to try. I love both ideas on the valves. It did not seem to play quite as freely as the normal Adams horns, but maybe that's the price you pay for the short action. Since I'm not a full-time player at this point, not to mention the years creeping up on me, a little help with valves is welcome. I also played the new E3 model. That has a different leadpipe and different shape to the large tubes and bell. Nice horn! It has a bit deeper sound (more gravitas?) and still feels as friendly as my own E1. I may consider switching to the E3, but I need to spend more time with one first.

Wessex front-valve compensating. As said already, it was less free in the compensating register. But it was a fun horn to play. It took me a minute to get used to the sound being close to my left ear instead of my right ear! I am excited about this horn, too, particularly if the Wessex folks can free up the low-register response. I've begun to think that the front valves are a little easier on the body because your arm is not stretching back. I did a tuning test on it, and overall it was as good as the Dolce, but with tendencies that were different in some ways. You can see the results here and compare with other models if you like:
http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/

Yamaha was an interesting experience. I mostly tried the 842, and I thought it played very well. The sound seemed more robust than the early models I tried (years ago); in any case it was a good sound. Response was very good. That was interesting, because the valve alignment was off! I talked to the reps about it, and they said that they ship from the factory with pads under the finger buttons that are too thick, but then when they are played for a month or so they tamp down and produce good alignment. I can't be totally sure, but I think that is the first time I have seen that. That fact that the horn played so well is a sign that the basic design is quite good and can withstand a little bump in the valve area.

I played briefly on the Besson horns. I was anxious to try the 967 because I had not played that one at previous shows (not enough to notice anyway). It is a very nice horn in their lineup. The trigger would be desirable on this horn, as it is on the Prestige, but my understanding is that Besson does not yet offer the trigger in the USA. Can anyone confirm or correct that? The valves on that horn were the most sluggish of the ones I tested, but I'm positive that was just the "display horn" problem. It just needed a wipe down and fresh oiling. I point that out not as a criticism of Besson at all, because it is pretty much thought by everyone that their valves are excellent. It is just something you should keep in mind as you are trying horns. Exhibits are NOT the place to judge valve quickness!

I played on the Willson saxhorn, and that was fun. It was quite different for me, as a "normal" euphonium player. The sound was very sweet, and would be a fine fit for some music... better than a euphonium. If one could own both a standard euphonium and one of these, I'm sure they would find a good use for the saxhorn. I also got some time to play the 2960. This was to double-check my opinion from the last ITEC. I think that model is my own personal favorite among the Willsons.

I played a bit on the Miraphone 5050 and thought it felt just like my memory said. It probably has the largest sound of the current horns, and it's a nice sound at that. It takes a bit more work to play, but it is still what I would call an easy-responder. It would not be my choice for recital work or chamber playing, but it would fit nicely with a large ensemble, I think.

I played very briefly on the JP Sterling 374 and the Eastman compensating euphonium. They both played nicely within the "clone" realm, but I was kept by other business from playing either as much as I wanted to. I can't even say which I liked better. Maybe next ITEC.

Baltimore Brass had an older Besson on display (medium shank, so before 1974). I was reminded what sweet horns these were in their days. The smoothness of response is not up to our current standards, and the sound is not as huge as we seem to want, but there is still that "magic" to the old Besson sound. If I had one sitting around, I'd probably play it at gigs now and then just for the fun of it.

As always, I play as many horns as I can so I understand the differences, plusses, minuses, etc. That was how I started to think about Adams in 2010/Tucson. After the rounds this year, I am still very sold on my choice of the Adams (in case anyone was wondering). But I have to say again that we are lucky ducks indeed to have so many fine choices. Of the pro horns I tried this year, I would not turn up my nose at any of them! There was not a dog among the pro horns I tried. My general advice is for serious players to try all the top brands, because not everyone will agree with my own choice. I see no reason to change that advice, or to tell anyone to save time by not trying one of them.

Let me take a minute to say that I appreciate all the vendors who came to ITEC. They give us a marvelous shopping opportunity and they help keep the event in the black. It's a real service (yes, profit-motivated, naturally) to have horns, equipment, music, etc. to check out. The folks at the exhibits seemed engaged and knowledgeable.

Along those lines, I just heard of another conference where the competitors who win prizes are given something like Monopoly money that they can use at any exhibit. What does everyone think of that idea? I would be a way for ITEC to further support the vendors, for one thing. But it means you can't sock it away in your college fund or your someday-horn fund.