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Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Wyvern » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:16 am

Earlier this year, young Belgium tuba virtuoso and Wessex Artiste, Ken Van-Hoylandt approached me about the possibility of making a compensated CC tuba which would be as versatile as the classic British Eb tubas to be able to use for anything from solo playing to band, or orchestra - A CC which could do anything! We corresponded and he sent me sketches of his designs and I saw the possibility for Wessex to make using mainly existing parts at the factory, as developing a new tuba if it requires new mandrels, particularly bell can be very expensive.

Ken joined Carl Kleinsteuber, Chuck Nickles and myself on visit to factory this December and using the tuba building talents of Chuck and the resources of the factory, the new Wessex TC367 ‘Hussar‘ 3/4 compensated CC tuba has become a reality.

The new tuba has really exceeded expectations. It has tone very much like a compensated Eb, not surprising as it shares the same bell, intonation is equally good as the Eb, high register is easy due to the relatively small bore, while the low register as you would expect is better than an Eb - and using compensated valve set, moving around in the low register is easy, even for fast passages.

The new tuba has 18” bell and 17.5mm to 18.5mm valve set based on the design of the old British cavalry tubas, which is where the idea of the name arises.

I expect the first batch of the new TC367 to be available Summer 2018. Price has not yet been finalised, but will be under $4,000.
Attachments
363805C0-469D-4012-84C5-8821E6F703DC.jpeg
Chuck explains to Ken how he is putting together the new tuba
363805C0-469D-4012-84C5-8821E6F703DC.jpeg (67.36 KiB) Viewed 3151 times
B91906B9-5716-4F62-8704-92BD91139066.jpeg
Chuck Nickles shows off his new build creation
B91906B9-5716-4F62-8704-92BD91139066.jpeg (76.29 KiB) Viewed 3151 times
26061F47-908E-42D9-A3B3-37C11B196C42.jpeg
Ken Van-Hoylandt play tests the tuba of his dreams
26061F47-908E-42D9-A3B3-37C11B196C42.jpeg (89.26 KiB) Viewed 3151 times
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Mark Finley » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:58 am

I have to say that's pretty cool!
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby KiltieTuba » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:20 am

So it’s a Besson 983 in CC?
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Mark Finley » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:31 am

KiltieTuba wrote:So it’s a Besson 983 in CC?



Sounds that way. I don't even think besson ever made a 4 valve compensating CC. That's cool that Wessex is trying something very innovative. (long way from the clone days, aren't they?)

Jonathan, I realize that prototypes are what they are, and we appreciate you being excited about giving us a sneak peak at new products, but I hope the tight bend in that one slide can be worked around, and same for the exposed tubing next to the bottom bow.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby iiipopes » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:40 pm

Mark Finley wrote:
KiltieTuba wrote:So it’s a Besson 983 in CC?



Sounds that way. I don't even think besson ever made a 4 valve compensating CC. That's cool that Wessex is trying something very innovative. (long way from the clone days, aren't they?)

Jonathan, I realize that prototypes are what they are, and we appreciate you being excited about giving us a sneak peak at new products, but I hope the tight bend in that one slide can be worked around, and same for the exposed tubing next to the bottom bow.

Correct. Besson only made a few F-compensating tubas. (I got to see the best one at Tuba Christmas!!!) But that is what Kiltie said: a tuba like a Besson 983, but in CC instead.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Mikelynch » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:42 pm

Besson actually made at least two very small groups of compensating CC's. It seems that one group (maybe just a couple of instruments) was apparently made in the 60's (and one of those was a 3V); with another group sometime later, probably in the 70's. There is reasonable information that in the second run, 2 each of 3V, and 4V were made. These 4V'ers were in the classic 3+1 configuration. I know that one 3V from the earlier group has since had a 4th added to it.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby bloke » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:14 pm

I played a factory Besson 3+1 C tuba back in the early 90's. It seemed OK, though I didn't play it with a tuner.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby KiltieTuba » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:45 pm

Ah, TubeNet at its finest - topic on one instrument turns into discussion about another manufacturer's instruments.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Mark Finley » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:52 pm

Well if the question was "has this ever been done before? then the answer is... "kind of"

if the question is "is this a clone?" then the answer is certainly not
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Heliconer » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:08 am

Next year may just be the year I buy a Wessex!
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Wyvern » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:15 am

KiltieTuba wrote:So it’s a Besson 983 in CC?

Not really. The valve layout is similar and same bore, the bell is derived from the Eb, although different diameter - but all the bows and taper in between are different.

A bit like people thing the Besson F were just cut down Eb. The valves and design was the same, but virtually every bow was different. I know because we are in the process of making a compensated F and all new mandrel are required.

Mark Finley wrote:Jonathan, I realize that prototypes are what they are, and we appreciate you being excited about giving us a sneak peak at new products, but I hope the tight bend in that one slide can be worked around, and same for the exposed tubing next to the bottom bow.

Raising the exposed 4th valve tubing at bottom is easy. That will be done on production tuba. For the tight bend - it does not seem to have any detrimental effect on how the tuba plays - and is difficult to eliminate, so we will see.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby iiipopes » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:09 am

Mikelynch wrote:Besson actually made at least two very small groups of compensating CC's. It seems that one group (maybe just a couple of instruments) was apparently made in the 60's (and one of those was a 3V); with another group sometime later, probably in the 70's. There is reasonable information that in the second run, 2 each of 3V, and 4V were made. These 4V'ers were in the classic 3+1 configuration. I know that one 3V from the earlier group has since had a 4th added to it.

I stand corrected. Thanks.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby bort » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:27 pm

Mike, is the Besson CC at BBC one of yours?
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Davidus1 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:43 pm

Will there be a BBb version?
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Wyvern » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:23 pm

Davidus1 wrote:Will there be a BBb version?

Not planned at present
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Mikelynch » Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:57 am

Bort--it is.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Tabor » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:59 am

Cool to see some new designs.


KiltieTuba wrote:So it’s a Besson 983 in CC?


KiltieTuba wrote:Ah, TubeNet at its finest - topic on one instrument turns into discussion about another manufacturer's instruments.


I think the real question here is which is better, lacquer or silver?
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby windshieldbug » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:05 am

Tabor wrote:I think the real question here is which is better, lacquer or silver?


Now we're getting to the heart of the matter! :twisted:
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby bloke » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:33 pm

Wyvern wrote:A bit like people think the Besson F were just cut down Eb. The valves and design was the same, but virtually every bow was different. I know because we are in the process of making a compensated F and all new mandrel are required.


truth. Those cute/squatty Besson/Boosey/Boosey&Hawkes compensating F tubas bore very little resemblance, structurally, to the compensating Eb tubas. Further, the (few) F tubas made in England seemed to vary somewhat widely/wildly as far as how "usable" they were/are. Most all of the compensating Eb's were very good instruments. Even a couple of the Edgware St. compensating Eb tubas sold to me represented as "mediocre" were (simply) in bad need of a very good cleaning.

Further, the build surely is just what Jonathan claims. There is a Yamaha YCB-621 knock-off available from China, but I don't believe it is made by Jinbao. It seems as though most seem to believe that everything from China comes from one place. From my limited interactions, all of the various factories seem somewhat (of not epically) jealous of their products and parts.
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Re: Creation of New Wessex 3/4 Compensated CC tuba

Postby Wyvern » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:47 pm

We have managed to remove that tight U bend from tubing. Here is the updated prototype TC367. Now needs to be measured for CAD drawings to be made and new mandrels where required. Therefore first batch will be summer 2018
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