Kellyberg Mouthpieces - Updated: 03-24-04

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:09 pm

What are tuba players opinions of the Kellyberg mouthpieces? Are they exact copies of Conn Hellebergs or any other Helleberg mouthpiece?

Please forgive the huge image.

I just thought I would test that function of the new BBS.

BTW...I LOVE this new format. Keep up the good work Sean!!!

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:33 pm

They play a LOT like the regular Helleberg mouthpieces. They also feel like they absorb vibration more than some metal mouthpieces, which will probably change the sound (which I wasn't able to evaluate very well).

What makes a bigger difference than dimensions is the grippiness of the Lexan. Goldplated mouthpieces feel pretty "wet" and slippery; silverplated ones give more stability; Lexan doesn't let your face move around much at all. That alone will have a pretty large effect on how you'd play.

In chilly weather, however, they are a GODSEND. I've had times on an all-metal mouthpiece where, even two full minutes into a piece, it still felt like my lip muscles were being iced down & stiffened. Through most of college, I'd spend my pre-performance time backstage with my mouthpiece in my trousers pocket to keep it at body temperature, thereby avoiding the temperature shock to my warmed-up lips.

Metal mouthpieces take heat away from skin faster than they can be warmed up. The latent transfer of heat of plastic is so much lower that the skin heats up the plastic faster than the plastic can chill the skin. Given the choice, I would much rather play on a plastic mouthpiece in weather below 65Âº F or so.

I'd also like to know if the person with the polypropylene mouthpiece is getting his project off the ground. Supposedly, the formula is more slippery than Lexan, nylon, or lucite, which would more closely approximate the lip-to-mouthpiece feel of silver or gold.

EDIT:
Oh yeah -- the Kellyberg mouthpieces are destructible, after all. However, I only know because I purposely abused the snot out of one of mine, tossing it around a concrete tennis court, throwing it at a chain-link fence, and other terrible things like that. There's now a tiny chip off the end of the shank, and some nearly-invisible hairline fractures near the rim (one or two of which are near the contact area of the inner edge).

However, that's much, much better than ANY metal mouthpiece. In regular day-to-day use, including the occasional drop onto a stage or street, the Lexan will be just fine. I'd consider that to be a selling point.

tubaspmcc · Post by **tubaspmcc** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:45 am

Leland or anyone else using these mouthpieces, have you noticed any rattling between the mouthpiece and leadpipe when going for lower notes (starts for me at Bb below the stave on my Besson982) I assume this is a difference between the metal and plastic versions!

By the way, if anyone is wondering - these mouthpieces are great for the heat as well! I still use the metal for any sitdown stuff we do, however.

Simon

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:01 am

I didn't notice any rattling of the kind -- it fit pretty snugly.

Which reminds me -- I don't know if anyone can even get one of these jammed into a horn. The little bit of additional flex in the plastic, coupled with its inability to rot or corrode, allowed it to be screwed into the receiver pretty tightly without getting stuck.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:23 pm

I just bought one. Mixed first review. It feels similar to my Helleberg, but not identical. Plus, my upper lip sticks to it -- much less "slippery" than metal. So it's a different feel. But it wasn't cold when I brought it and the tuba inside from the car for brass practice.

But for $30, with a "glow-in-the-dark" option, how can you go wrong?

docpugh · Post by **docpugh** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:34 pm

These look interesting. Where can somebody buy one of these?? Do they come in camoflage color as well??

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:12 pm

Several places are selling them now. Brian Fredericksen sold me my pair (one clear, one red) at the Ft. Myer conference, and there were at least two other retailers at the exhibits with them. I also think Joe S. carries them.

I think they're only in a few sizes: Bach 18 & 25, and the Helleberg. There are clear-only Canadian Brass versions, too.

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:18 pm

re: LDC

Do the big music suppliers( Brasswind, Baltimore) have these mouthpieces

I ordered my Kellyberg tuba, trumpet and trombone mouthpieces from the Brasswind. http://www.wwbw.com

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 10:42 am

I tried out a friend's R&S Helleberg (you know, the one built like a soup can), and it seemed like it reflect vibrations back to my face more than the regular version. I thought it wouldn't do that, but it surprised me when it did.

The biggest difference to me with the Lexan is how much it grips the skin compared to metal finishes. Some will think it's OK, others won't like it much at all.

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:53 am

I have done quite a lot of playing on a Kellyberg since last October, and while I may not use it for every playing situation, there is no reason that I couldn't do so.
It feels warm in cold weather, not hot in hot weather, and results in much less chop fatigue for me on long gigs. The absence of a metallic ring in the sound, particularly at mid' and higher volume levels, gives the impression of a darker, larger sound.
I think the Kellyberg is quite similar to a particular original Helleberg I restored last year, but is not nearly an exact copy of a new one.
Overall, having a mouthpiece that feels good, sounds good, is not susceptible to damage and doesn't cost a lot, is very appealing indeed.

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:28 am

Thank you to all who have posted to this thread. I can't wait for my "Crystal Red" Kellyberg to arrive.

Is there anything that can be done to reduce the friction between the mouthpiece and skin? Would a spray lacquer (or something else) give a slippery surface?

Question for fellow educators: Would you feel comfortable having your students play on Kellyberg mouthpieces?

My wife teaches at a Christian school here in Alabama and all of the local stores want too much money for mouthpieces. So, she has decided to place orders through Hickey's Music in Ithaca, NY (where I used to work). She has saved quite a bit on trombone and saxophone stuff. In any event, do educators feel that these Kellyberg mouthpieces would be suitable to beginning brass students. It's a little easier to tell a student (and/or their parents) that they need to buy a mouthpiece when it costs them $28 rather than $40.

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 9:36 am

>What makes a bigger difference than dimensions is the grippiness of the Lexan. Goldplated mouthpieces feel pretty "wet" and slippery; silverplated ones give more stability; Lexan doesn't let your face move around much at all. That alone will have a pretty large effect on how you'd play.

one thing you can do to change the grippiness is to coat the rim with nail polish; it is sort of halfway between silver and gold in feel..but not as "hard" as either. It might solve the super-grippy problems.

MA
PS: instead of just clicking on your post and answering it, I had to 1) log in, and 2) somehow go back and find this post, which took me about 12 times as long as the old format.

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:37 am

Nail polish sounds like a good idea, however isn't that stuff toxic? I told my wife about the idea and she was a little concerned. Is there something that can be used that is less toxic (perhaps organic) or something that might be more permenent? My wife's concern was that nail polish flakes off and and could be be ingested.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:03 am

TubaTodd wrote:Nail polish sounds like a good idea, however isn't that stuff toxic?

AFAIK, the agent in plain old clear nail polish is nothing more than nitrocellulose lacquer. While the solvent used to keep it liquid has some toxicity, it's gone pretty quickly once the stuff dries.

Think of all of the people who use nail polish and bite their nails. If there were a problem with toxicity, it'd get noticed pretty quickly.

big_blue_tubist · Post by **big_blue_tubist** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:47 pm

tubaspmcc wrote:Leland or anyone else using these mouthpieces, have you noticed any rattling between the mouthpiece and leadpipe when going for lower notes (starts for me at Bb below the stave on my Besson982) I assume this is a difference between the metal and plastic versions!

By the way, if anyone is wondering - these mouthpieces are great for the heat as well! I still use the metal for any sitdown stuff we do, however.

Simon

Good, I was starting to wonder if that rattling sound was just me. I have my Kellyberg plugged into a Conn 14K, and for every note that doesn't have any spread in it, it's just fine, but BBb and below, it makes an awful lot of noise for my taste. Hopefully someone can enlighten us on why the clack!

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:07 pm

So,

It seems like what we're all looking for is something with the surface-to-skin friction of silver or gold, with proper dimensions, good sound, and weather- & ding-proof.

A different plastic could fix the friction problem. Redistribution of mass might help with sound quality. Dimensions, hopefully, could be done more accurately and in more sizes than just three. The temperature & durability are already proven.

I think a good, full-time-use all-plastic mouthpiece is possible. These are pretty close, but there's still room to improve.

Jeffrey Hicks · Post by **Jeffrey Hicks** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:22 pm

Why not something like a good polyurethane like they make Skateboard wheels out of? This is just an idea...I know nothing about plastics...

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:47 pm

When this topic popped up on TubeNet I back in January or so, somebody mentioned that they knew of a guy who's been working on a plastic mouthpiece compound based on a polyethylene, which was supposed to be as slippery as conventional finishes.

I don't know much about plastics either, but polyethylene interests me because of its use in kiteflying.

Stunt kites -- the ones with two or more lines -- have been using a kiteline fiber usually called Spectra, which is a spun-bonded polyethylene. The manufacturing process does as much as possible to align the fibers in the same direction, which reduces friction, especially considering the structure of polyethylene (explained below). Braided Spectra can be rated at 500 lbs. tensile strength while only being a millimeter or so thick, yet has about 4% stretch (nylon has about 30% stretch). And, yes, it's the same stuff that some fishing lines are made of, usually from Spiderwire or other brands. The best part for stunt kites is that it's really slippery -- a pair of Spectra kite lines can be wrapped around each other with minimal loss of control due to friction. Dacron and Kevlar lines were made obsolete for stunt flying because they were just too rough.

At some point, I had a chemistry reference book, and looked up some polymers. Polyethylene's molecular structure was really different from anything else -- it's basically a straight chain of hydrocarbon sections. Say that you took a bunch of ruler-sized blades of graphite (itself a flat atomic structure) and bundled them together. The bundle would be pretty strong, quite stiff, yet would not have much friction against another graphite bundle.

"YEAH, OKAY, GET TO THE POINT ALREADY!"

Polyethylene would make sense as a structurally sound, low friction plastic. Teflon can still be scarred, while Lexan & nylon are too grippy for most.

I'll be eager to try one of the polyethylene mouthpieces if they ever come to market.

TubaTodd · Post by **TubaTodd** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:54 pm

The 3 Kellyberg mouthpieces have arrived. I ordered 1 crystal blue Trumpet 3C (for teaching), 1 crystal red Trombone 6.5AL (for teaching), and 1 crystal red Tuba Helleberg (for me!

).

Upon openning the boxes I smiled. They look so cool!!! My next surprise was their weight. I was expecting the usual mass of a metal mouthpiece. WRONG...they are really light. I dove into the Helleberg packaging and started buzzing. WOW, it seems very "live" and resonant. After buzzing on the mouthpiece for a little while, I tried it with my tuba. WOW, what a sound. It is so similar to my Conn Helleberg that I didn't need to adjust.

About the material: From what I have read from other people in this thread, I was expecting a very "grippy" plastic, but I was surprised that it wasn't too bad. Yes, it is grippier than metal, but it won't bother me.

All I can say is...I want to buy more colors.

I will be showing these mouthpieces to my students on Friday. They are going to FLIP OUT!!

GC · Post by GC » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:39 pm

I find that my Kellyburg is very easy on the lip for warming up or for having to jump into playing without sufficient warmup. If I'm getting tired, it's easy to get a good sound without as much stress as playing my larger RM 10. The only thing that I don't like about the KB is that I can't produce high volume levels as easily as with a metal mouthpiece. If I'm the only tuba at a rehearsal, I have to stick with the RM 10 or Bach 12. If there are other players there, I'll use the Kellyburg most of the time.

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