F Tuba Mouthpiece Recommendations

a2ba4u · Post by **a2ba4u** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:19 pm

Just wondering if anyone can recommend a FUNNEL cup F tuba mouthpiece. I play on a standard Conn Helleberg with my CC tuba and was looking for something similar for the F, but in slightly more F-tuba-like proportions. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Kyle

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:28 pm

Check out the Laskey 30F (or, if you can find one, the old Schilke Helleberg II-F). It is probably as close to what you are looking for as you'll be able to get.

Other suggestions include the Floyd Cooley Helleberg and the "Arnold Jacobs Solo" by Kelly and "Chuck Daellenbach Replica" mouthpiece made by Yamaha.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:01 pm

The Denis Wick 1 or 1L is 32.5mm (1.28 inches) and funnel, but not extremely deep like some Hellebergs. Also, it has a more Bach-ish rim. I can play as high as I need to with it, and depending on your receiver, comes in both the small (1) and the standard American (1L) shank.

The Denis Wick 2 and 2L have an ever so slightly smaller diameter, 32 mm (1.26 inches), and a cup and rim almost identical to a Bach 18.

I have both, and I use the 1 when I need a broader tone and the 2 when I need a more focused tone.

Tom Waid · Post by **Tom Waid** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:39 pm

Tom wrote:Other suggestions include the Floyd Cooley Helleberg and the "Arnold Jacobs Solo" and "Chuck Daellenbach Replica" mouthpieces made by (I think) Yamaha.

If you are refering to the Arnold Jacobs - Canadian Brass mouthpiece it is indeed a Helleberg style mouthpiece that works excellently on f-tuba. I use it on my Yamaha 621. It was made by Warburton who's shop unfortunately burned down last summer. He's rebuilding but, presently is not making tuba mouthpieces.

http://www.warburton-usa.com/default.htm

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:52 pm

Tom Waid wrote:
Tom wrote:Other suggestions include the Floyd Cooley Helleberg and the "Arnold Jacobs Solo" and "Chuck Daellenbach Replica" mouthpieces made by (I think) Yamaha.
If you are refering to the Arnold Jacobs - Canadian Brass mouthpiece it is indeed a Helleberg style mouthpiece that works excellently on f-tuba. I use it on my Yamaha 621. It was made by Warburton who's shop unfortunately burned down last summer. He's rebuilding but, presently is not making tuba mouthpieces.

http://www.warburton-usa.com/default.htm

There is also an Arnold Jacobs Solo model, in traditional brass/silverplate made by Kelly.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:09 pm

There is also an Arnold Jacobs Solo model, in traditional brass/silverplate made by Kelly.

That's the one!

Dan Satterwhite · Post by **Dan Satterwhite** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:27 pm

I play on a standard Conn Helleberg with my CC tuba and was looking for something similar for the F, but in slightly more F-tuba-like proportions.

Sounds like a Helleberg 7B to me.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:50 pm

One thing none of us asked: is it the funnel you want, just a little shallower, a lesser diameter cup, the flat rim with a good "bite," or some combination thereof?

a2ba4u · Post by **a2ba4u** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:42 pm

To respond to iiipopes last post:

I don't have a clue as to what feature of the mouthpiece that I am actually looking for. I've read about how altering various parts of the mouthpiece (throat, rim, etc.) affects one's sound, but I don't have any idea what that means for my personal sound, and I have yet to be able to sit down with 150 different mouthpieces to find out. I played a PT88 on my PT6r for several years and always struggled with articulation problems. I switched to a couple of GW's (Bayamo, Caver) last year which seemed to help the articulation problems but sound became too "specialized" for my ears (I love the GW's in certain situations, but a majority of the playing that I do now requires a brighter and lighter tone) and I began having a little bit of a problem with slurring over wide intervals (wider than a third). I started playing the Conn Helleberg early this school year on the CC, and while its still not the "perfect" mouthpiece, I feel its a great compromise in a lot of areas. This said, I am still playing a PT65 on my PT16 F tuba and having the same problems that I had on the PT6 with the PT88. Hence the original post here.

In response to SJSUW's post:

I own a Matanuska and use it occasionally with the F when the music calls for a lot of low C's or subtlety below the staff. It really makes the low stuff sound great, but I have very little endurance with it and playing above the staff (for any length of time) is much more difficult that I would like for it to be.

The reccommendations so far have been quite helpful. Please keep them coming!

Kyle

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:10 pm

SJSUW wrote:I use the Bora for my 621F. It may work well in your case, too.

You never know, it might, but by the descriptions, the closest match I can see in the GW lineup is the Diablo, which is pretty wide, and "medium deep". But it's supposed to be a funnel shape, which was the question.

I'm guessing GW is not the answer. I like my Conn 3 for a medium width shallow funnel, but I'm not sure mine is representative of the model, and I am not sure it would be so great for "legit" applications. Denis Wick 5L is a loosely funnel shape in a 30.5mm width, and to my ears (5 on a small Eb) it has a round-edged sound more characteristic of funnel shape, but it's towards the middle of the brightness scale.

I'd be interested to hear about more shallow funnel shaped pieces, too.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 3:10 pm

a2ba4u wrote:I started playing the Conn Helleberg early this school year on the CC, and while its still not the "perfect" mouthpiece, I feel its a great compromise in a lot of areas. This said, I am still playing a PT65 on my PT16 F tuba and having the same problems that I had on the PT6 with the PT88.

I have this feeling that the rim is more of an issue with you than the cup shape. One of the keys to the popularity of the Conn Helleberg has been the sharp rim, which makes clean articulation easier for me. The deep funnel shape provides the contrabass sound, and the sharp rim improves clarity and flexibility.

So, you might look for a mouthpiece with some bite in the rim rather than trying to find something specifically funnel-shaped. Most mouthpieces today are funnel-shaped, even the PT-88, while those mouthpieces that are supposed to be funnel shaped, like the PT-48, have some bowl in their shape. (The PT-48, by the way, is a high-clarity mouthpiece in my experience, and you might give it a try on your PT-6).

I play the Mike Finn 4 on F tuba and find that it has a high degree of clarity compared to the PT-64 with which I've compared it. The sound is more open, too. You might give it a try.

Rick "who needs all the clarity he can get" Denney

Donn · Post by **Donn** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:16 pm

Rick Denney wrote:I play the Mike Finn 4 on F tuba and find that it has a high degree of clarity compared to the PT-64 with which I've compared it. The sound is more open, too. You might give it a try.

Rick "who needs all the clarity he can get" Denney

Does clarity come with kind of an edge? Like maybe a boost in the mid-range, lower energy harmonics?

When I try my C4, to take what I think is an extreme example, I get a relatively well defined but kind of hard sound. I personally don't like it a bit, but it probably depends on the tuba, one's ability, playing situation etc. I suspect in the end we learn to get whatever sound we wanted from whatever mouthpiece we play, and I'm way back on the early legs of that journey. But with a tuba that inherently has kind of a clear and not too warm sound - maybe it's the relatively large bore, but you really hear everything - I'm finding that the apparently rare shallow funnel shape delivers a lusher, more pleasing sound to start with. So it's a shame the only one I know of is out of production.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 10:42 pm

Donn wrote:Does clarity come with kind of an edge? Like maybe a boost in the mid-range, lower energy harmonics?

Not really. It has an open, singing sound on the old Symphonie; not at all like a C4 on a Miraphone. The PT-64 sounds closed or muffled by comparison. I just think I get more color out of the Finn on that instrument.

Rick "who still wants it to sound like an F tuba" Denney

Bove · Post by **Bove** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:01 am

One solid standard choice for F tuba mouthpieces is the Tilz 9, or Rudy Meinl 9, or Perantucci 9. (They are all pretty much the same.)

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:56 am

Bove wrote:One solid standard choice for F tuba mouthpieces is the Tilz 9, or Rudy Meinl 9, or Perantucci 9. (They are all pretty much the same.)

Would that be a PT-64?

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:29 pm

Tom wrote:
Bove wrote:One solid standard choice for F tuba mouthpieces is the Tilz 9, or Rudy Meinl 9, or Perantucci 9. (They are all pretty much the same.)
Would that be a PT-64?

Yes.

Rick "who once owned a PT-9, and who now owns a PT-64" Denney

Jeff Miller · Post by **Jeff Miller** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:31 pm

I think it depends very much on your instrument and your concept of sound and style. I like a small, punchy sound with a lot of colour, but with the potential for a wide pallete of colors. In other words, I like to play instruments and mouthpieces that offer me a lot of options. Many instruments will only work with a certain type of mouthpiece. If you have one of those, find someone with a similar horn whose playing you admire and try what they're using.

I use a small Hirsbrunner f with one of 2 mouthpieces. I use a Bobo solo and a Perantucci PT 64. The Bobo has loads of character and clarity, whereas the Perantucci is a tiny bit darker but offers more foundation for other instruments to sit on.

I'm not sure about using a funnel shaped mouthpiece with an f tuba; most f tuba players that I know try (IMHO) to maintain too many characteristics of the C tuba for my liking. The f tuba is its own instrument, I think it works best when the player isn't afraid to make a smaller, brighter sound. (By the way, the "small" sound usually carries at least as far as a "big" sound, and with more clarity).

I hope that's of some use.