Euphonium Sound: British or American?
-
sprithammereuph
- bugler
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Hooks, TX
- Contact:
Euphonium Sound: British or American?
Which type of euphonium playing do you prefer and why? I like em both and try to mix the two together because I love both sounds.
Last edited by sprithammereuph on Sun Jan 15, 2006 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
-
BopEuph
- pro musician
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:51 am
- Location: Orlando, FL
-
JTJ
- bugler
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:21 pm
- Location: Chapel Hill NC
From a 2003 tubenet posting by someone who has done both:
***
It is I think a difference in perception. Many of the euphonium players in America that I've talked to will say, and believe, that British players play with a bright sound. In fact, they will continue to be amazed that even with the large compensating euphoniums they use, the British play with a bright sound. It kind of boggles my mind, because when I was in Britain at Royal Northern, I was told that I was playing with a very "American" sound (aka bright). I am not sure, but it seems to me that perhaps the verbage is incorrect here. Perhaps instead of talking about dark and bright we should be talking about issues of presence or maybe even pure volume of sound. NOT that Americans can't, and don't play with large sounds, but in general, I do believe that we don't come close to what the British do. Sitting in the Brickhouse and Rastick rehearsals, and the Black Dyke rehearsals, I can say without a DOUBT that I've never been asked to play with a bigger, larger, louder sound IN MY 15 years of playing the euphonium. I had to work hard to produce enough sound for the FFs, only to play the quietest that I've ever played in the next bar at pp. It was amazing, and not something that I think anyone in America has really experienced. I've played with the North Texas Wind Symphony, and now with the USAF Band in D.C. If I played as loud as I did in Britain, I'd for sure be signing Article 15 paperwork (well, that might be a bit extreme...). But that kind of dynamic range at the high end doesn't fit here.
So, after that slight tangent, like I was saying before, I do believe that we are using terms of apples to describe oranges. Both countries have the idea that the other plays with a brighter sound. Presence of sound, might provide a more appropriate means for discussion.
For what it's worth
Danny "I always type too much and say mostly nothing" Helseth
***
It is I think a difference in perception. Many of the euphonium players in America that I've talked to will say, and believe, that British players play with a bright sound. In fact, they will continue to be amazed that even with the large compensating euphoniums they use, the British play with a bright sound. It kind of boggles my mind, because when I was in Britain at Royal Northern, I was told that I was playing with a very "American" sound (aka bright). I am not sure, but it seems to me that perhaps the verbage is incorrect here. Perhaps instead of talking about dark and bright we should be talking about issues of presence or maybe even pure volume of sound. NOT that Americans can't, and don't play with large sounds, but in general, I do believe that we don't come close to what the British do. Sitting in the Brickhouse and Rastick rehearsals, and the Black Dyke rehearsals, I can say without a DOUBT that I've never been asked to play with a bigger, larger, louder sound IN MY 15 years of playing the euphonium. I had to work hard to produce enough sound for the FFs, only to play the quietest that I've ever played in the next bar at pp. It was amazing, and not something that I think anyone in America has really experienced. I've played with the North Texas Wind Symphony, and now with the USAF Band in D.C. If I played as loud as I did in Britain, I'd for sure be signing Article 15 paperwork (well, that might be a bit extreme...). But that kind of dynamic range at the high end doesn't fit here.
So, after that slight tangent, like I was saying before, I do believe that we are using terms of apples to describe oranges. Both countries have the idea that the other plays with a brighter sound. Presence of sound, might provide a more appropriate means for discussion.
For what it's worth
Danny "I always type too much and say mostly nothing" Helseth
-
sprithammereuph
- bugler
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Hooks, TX
- Contact:
-
Ryan_Beucke
- 3 valves
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:31 pm
- Location: Potsdam, NY
There aren't really any "American Made" euphoniums. Any that I can think of that might be, are student or intermediate horns. The popular horns in the US (and the world really) are Willson (Swiss), Yamaha (Japan), Besson (UK), Hirsbrunner (Swiss), Sterling (UK), Meinl Weston (Germany), Miraphone (Germany). Even the top of the line Bach euphonium is really a Yamaha 321 with a bach etching.
-
Chuck(G)
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:48 am
- Location: Not out of the woods yet.
- Contact:
What do you call this made-in-Anaheim 4-valve comper, then?Ryan_Beucke wrote:There aren't really any "American Made" euphoniums. Any that I can think of that might be, are student or intermediate horns. The popular horns in the US (and the world really) are Willson (Swiss), Yamaha (Japan), Besson (UK), Hirsbrunner (Swiss), Sterling (UK), Meinl Weston (Germany), Miraphone (Germany). Even the top of the line Bach euphonium is really a Yamaha 321 with a bach etching.
http://www.kanstul.net/pages/instrument ... u975m.html
-
Ryan_Beucke
- 3 valves
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:31 pm
- Location: Potsdam, NY
I stand corrected...I did not know that Kanstul made a compensating euph, and I also didn't know that they were a US company.
Regardless, this is not as popular as the other mentioned instruments. The tradition is for US players to play Willsons, Swiss made euphs, and British players to play Bessons made in the UK.*
*This is in general, so don't email me about how your favorite service band euphonium player plays a yamaha or a besson etc. The majority have played Willsons for the past 20 or so years. But before Willson was around, guess what everybody, including in the US played? That's right, Bessons (B&H).
Regardless, this is not as popular as the other mentioned instruments. The tradition is for US players to play Willsons, Swiss made euphs, and British players to play Bessons made in the UK.*
*This is in general, so don't email me about how your favorite service band euphonium player plays a yamaha or a besson etc. The majority have played Willsons for the past 20 or so years. But before Willson was around, guess what everybody, including in the US played? That's right, Bessons (B&H).
-
sprithammereuph
- bugler
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 9:17 pm
- Location: Hooks, TX
- Contact:
-
quinterbourne
- 4 valves
- Posts: 772
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:52 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
-
Albertibass
- 3 valves
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:25 pm
- Location: Fort Worth, TX
-
quinterbourne
- 4 valves
- Posts: 772
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 5:52 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
This is what I think (and I'm restating what a lot of people said):
British: a very bright sound with a lot of vibrato.
American: a very dark sound with little or no vibrato.
* this is very similar in the American/German sound philosophies when it comes to tubas (although that is more instrument based, while the euphonium sound is more player based).
Now, I think it is a good idea if you know how to play in both styles. Some people love the British sound, while others hate it. Some people find the excessive use of vibrato quite annoying, especially when it is used during non-solo material. That heavy vibrato can easily cover up the melody in other instruments.
Some people also think that the vibrato can easily make intonation issues more apparent to the ear. It's tough to find the pitch in all that vibrato, especially when another instrument is trying to match your pitch.
Places when you want to employ the British sound:
-When you are playing a solo passage (ie the counter-melody in Colonel Bogey).
-When you are actually playing a solo (ie w or w/o piano).
-When you are playing with a British band (or brass band)... ie when almost everyone else, specifically including trumpets and cornets, is playing with a lot of vibrato. If everyone in your "American" band (or brass band) is playing with lots of vibrato, join them.
British: a very bright sound with a lot of vibrato.
American: a very dark sound with little or no vibrato.
* this is very similar in the American/German sound philosophies when it comes to tubas (although that is more instrument based, while the euphonium sound is more player based).
Now, I think it is a good idea if you know how to play in both styles. Some people love the British sound, while others hate it. Some people find the excessive use of vibrato quite annoying, especially when it is used during non-solo material. That heavy vibrato can easily cover up the melody in other instruments.
Some people also think that the vibrato can easily make intonation issues more apparent to the ear. It's tough to find the pitch in all that vibrato, especially when another instrument is trying to match your pitch.
Places when you want to employ the British sound:
-When you are playing a solo passage (ie the counter-melody in Colonel Bogey).
-When you are actually playing a solo (ie w or w/o piano).
-When you are playing with a British band (or brass band)... ie when almost everyone else, specifically including trumpets and cornets, is playing with a lot of vibrato. If everyone in your "American" band (or brass band) is playing with lots of vibrato, join them.
-
TubaRay
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4109
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:24 pm
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
- Contact:
-
TubaRay
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4109
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 4:24 pm
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
- Contact: