What makes york so much better?

[Gorilla Tuba]

I always thought that the York mystique was pure nostalgia. However, I played Jeff Hodap's (Low Brass prof at Empoia State University) Rusk Cut/German made York Master and my perceptions have changed. This truly was a wonderful instrument. If this was any indication of how the "real" Yorks (Grand Rapids manufacture)played, then there may actually be some magic in the metal.

[brianf]

there may actually be some magic in the metal

Here it is - the metal they used.

I have played a lot of Yorks and imitations from the two CSO Yorks to a horn that I played before giving it away as a total piece of junk (which was made into a pretty good F). Guess I'm like Victor Kiam, I liked them so much I bought the company - I own the J.W. York and Sons name!

Contrary to what you hear, not all Yorks are great horns. I've played some dogs. I own an old Navy horn, a 4/4 upright B flat. As far as Yorks, it's OK but is stuffy - it takes a lot of air to get this puppy going but it has a sound. Guess it's like a Harley, they have their own characteristic sound.

Legend says that Bill Johnson, the tuba designer, was very particular about what brass he's use for the tubas. The composition is different from a lot of brass in the era and, in comparison to today, it is much thicker. Labor was cheap then and hydrolics didn't exist. These were handmade horns.

There are reproductions today - YorkBrunner, Nirchl and YamaYork are copies of the CSO York. The Getzen is a kissing cousin of a 1910?? York, the Holton Phillips is an inbreed from an older York. There are others. Then there are various FrankenYorks using York parts with new valves and designs. They still have the characteristic York sound because of the metel.

[Chuck Jackson]

One word: Salesmanship.


Chuck"who believes that if Phil Donatelli had been 50lbs. lighter, tubadom would have been looking for a different horn that Arnold Jacobs invariably would have sounded fantastic on"Jackson

[windshieldbug]

I don't think it was just salesmanship;

I've got a York & Sons Grand Rapids rotary valve alto, and the workmanship knocks my socks off! The rotary valve block is made like a piston valve block would be; the individual valves are brazed together, and not just soldered together like normal rotaries. The casings look like casings for berliner valves; they are open top and bottom, and are about as thick. The bearing surfaces are then pressed in on top and bottom, but the valves seal like piston valves. The valves themselves are not hollowed out solid valves like a horn; they are built-up like a piston is, and the air passages go straight through the valve, not on one side like a regular rotary. They act more like berlin pistons in use, but they turn side-to-side, not up-and down.

The rotary cap is different as well; the screw goes in the side, not in the top. I've never seen anything like the thinking that went into this horn, and I've seen Perinet valves, Pistons, Stölzels, Berliners, Allen string side actions, Mechanical side actions, Clockspring side actions, and just plain rotarys.

There was some craftsmanship in these babies, I have no trouble believing that the same design and execution didn't extend to other horns as well.

<img src="http://www.horn-u-copia.net/yabbfiles/A ... lves01.jpg" width=400>

[anonymous4]

YamaYork

Does anybody sell this model? Last I heard there were only 6 in the world and none were for sale. Are they a "special order" type of thing?

??

[JayW]

Yamayork is indeed a special order.... if you have around $28,000

[Bandmaster]

YamaYork

Does anybody sell this model? Last I heard there were only 6 in the world and none were for sale. Are they a "special order" type of thing?

??

Yamaha had YamaYork number 9 at the NAMM show, so they have made a few more since you checked last.

[brianf]

These days, a lot of instrument parts are made by bending brass with hydrolics. Gennerally the brass is much thinner than horns made by hand. On the other side of that, the amount of labor saved by using hydrolics is incredible. It's a trade off.

[scottw]

Water, oil, what's the difference! Think of it this way: hydraulics rhymes with oil if you are from someplace south of the Mason-Dixon line; hydrolics is like H2OOOOOOO

[brianf]

poor souls who are addicted to water..??

I've been picked on by Bloke over a spelling - guess I'm officially someoneone on this list.

Thanks Bloke - I needed that!

[Mark E. Chachich]

My Opinions,

Are Yorks the best? No, I think that they share this honor. I think that York tubas are an exceptional make that are in the catagory of the best with some other makes (Alexander for one). The fact that some of the finest tubists have played York is enough of a statement on quality for me.
However, not all of the York tubas made were excellent.

I have a York 4 valve Monster E flat that I use as my bass tuba. I like the York sound and the response. Non tuba playing musicians have also liked the sound that I get on my York. York tubas do have a distinct sound that is noticed (in a positive way).

One last point. Some time ago there was a discussion about are old tubas better. Someone gave the opinion that most old tubas that survive do so because they are good tubas. Otherwise they most likely become boat anchors, bird houses, mail boxes, etc...

best,
Mark

[jacobg]

Why don't people salivate over vintage York trombones, trumpets, french horns, or euphoniums, or even sousaphones?

[windshieldbug]

Why don't people salivate over vintage York trombones, trumpets, french horns, or euphoniums, or even sousaphones?

Some particular instruments they do... but I think the answer to the question you are asking is largely bore size. Modern orchestral instruments are much larger than they were at the turn of the 20th century.

And, as the century went on, York became a much different company.

[BVD Press]

How about the people who play them!

[jacobg]

Some particular instruments they do... but I think the answer to the question you are asking is largely bore size. Modern orchestral instruments are much larger than they were at the turn of the 20th century.

And, as the century went on, York became a much different company.

Yes, but by the turn of the century Conn was already making orchestral size trombones (called "Large Bore", "Artist Symphony", and later 8h and 88h). The bores and bell sizes were nearly identical to the modern standards, .525 and .547. By the 30's these were not uncommon. You can read loads about them (mostly by Steve Dillon) on forum.trombone.org under the history section and the threads on the genesis of modern Conn models and large bore trombones in American orchestras. It is inconceivable to me that they had no competition, especially from a company like York which specialized in Low Brass.

[Chuck(G)]

Why don't people salivate over vintage York trombones, trumpets, french horns, or euphoniums, or even sousaphones?

How about the people who play them!

I own a couple of Yorks; a big CC and a couple of eefers and some frankentubas and no one has ever salivated over me, save an IRS auditor or two.