What Happened to Being a Musician?

The bulk of the musical talk
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Rick Denney
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Post by Rick Denney »

Chuck(G) wrote:Anent that, I heard a very respected flute teacher say that without an exception, the really good students she's had could sing and dance--and the very best ones could act.

Watdyall think of that?

A friend once told me that Mr. Jacobs told him that if he could mandate a single course to study it'd be drama.
I have never done dramatic acting, but I have loads of experience teaching. Teaching short courses to adults requires a little acting and many of the same skills as a stand-up comedian. All of those skills are most useful to me as a musician. They require the ability to tell a story with a sense of timing and delivery.

Rick "who should think more about the story of music" Denney
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Post by sloan »

harold wrote:
As for classifications, I believe that there are two types of people: those that classify things into two groups and those that don't.
There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
Kenneth Sloan
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Post by sloan »

bloke wrote:I'm willing to escalate the argument and make TONS more enemies... :P :lol: :twisted:

As the treble clef is the clef in which the vast majority of western music is written, if reading treble clef is not second nature to you, then you are really not a *performer who can read written music.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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*of western music
I can read treble clef just fine (for the past 50 years, anyway) - it's just that playing those notes on my BBb tuba is a bit difficult.
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Post by Rick Denney »

Doc wrote:Of course not every single young person is a slothful idiot, but the trend in poor spelling, lack of common sense, heightened laziness, etc. can not be disputed. TV, video games, computers, MTV, pop music, etc. are certainly factors. Teaching to the test, instead of teaching what's necessary is a problem that contributes to the problem as well. Of course, I would say poor parenting is the root cause, letting their kids over-indulge in all these things (and a push for money by adults in education with the testing fad) which takes the burden off the young generation - which may prove your point - it may not be the kid's fault after all. Touche'.
You guys are all missing it.

The reason for education's woes is what we expect of it. 100 years ago, only the well-off were college-educated. A kid had to live in an upper-middle-class family to be likely to finish high school. Most people learned a trade by apprenticing to a master, and spend their lives working with their hands.

After WWII, new prosperity changed our expectations. We came to expect every kid to graduate high school, even going so far as to making it a legal requirement for them to attend school until age 16. Some kids were not academically prepared for it, and some kids' families were not culturally committed to it. So, the schools had to make it easier to get through. This, of course, meant school became boring to the kids who were disposed to being well-educated.

Starting 30 or 35 years ago, we started expecting school to become social training grounds, in addition to teaching the fundamentals of language, history, mathematics, and science.

Also after WWII (which was, of course, after the Depression), new propsperity led to new acquisitiveness. The acquisitiveness (which is not at all wrong) led to greed (which is wrong) in those who could not control it, and this led to the desire to acquire more. This, coupled with the desire for independence on the part of women, has led to families where both parents expect to be able to hold down careers. The "career" of raising a family lost its appeal, because of how it was considered by both women and men.

Now, raising kids is a matter of spending money, just like everything else. If there is a problem to be solved, we spend money and hire a professional, instead of circling the family wagons and putting in the time to sort it out ourselves. We bring in the psychologist, the school counselor, the therapist, the babysitters (i.e., teachers) of all persuasions and expect them to address the issues.

We've forgotten so much how to be self-sufficient that we've even forgotten how to raise our own kids to be adults.

ALL those influences have had an effect, and that effect is that kids today feel detached from their families and identify more with their peer group than with their parents. They have seen how greed is destructive, and they foolishly equate acquisitiveness with greed. They have lost all sense of value in property, particularly family property, because they see property and acquisitiveness as being the same. The result is that they are even greedier than their parents without realizing it.

Groups are not creative. People are creative. But 100 years ago, intellectual creativity was the domain of a few, though wisdom was common. Now we expect creativity from everyone, and wisdom is uncommon. Look at our music schools. Innovation is what defines art, not beauty.

Colleges are now like high school used to be. Everyone feels like college is their birthright, and that any college degree is the ticket to a life of luxury. We have forgotten what it is to be educated.

The real problem, of course, is selfishness. That is one thing our kids are learning from us all too effectively. But the solution is selflessness from within, not imposed selflessness from without, as preached by those who would makes us more generous by coercion, and by those who want to abdicate the responsibility for curing the problem to others.

Rick "as selfish as the next guy" Denney
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Post by Rick Denney »

sloan wrote:
I can read treble clef just fine (for the past 50 years, anyway) - it's just that playing those notes on my BBb tuba is a bit difficult.
Bingo!

As to moving notes around on imaginary clefs, I admire those who can do it. I can't. And I have plenty of practice doing transcriptions and arrangements for just a bonehead hobbYist.

Rick "wishing he'd had the same mental breakthrough after a few bars of writing a transposition as did Klaus" Denney
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Post by sloan »

Rick Denney wrote:

The reason for education's woes is what we expect of it. 100 years ago, only the well-off were college-educated. A kid had to live in an upper-middle-class family to be likely to finish high school. Most people learned a trade by apprenticing to a master, and spend their lives working with their hands.
My grandfather stood at the lathe so that my father could sit at the drafting table so that I could stare at a computer screen so that my sons can study music.

Repeat as necessary.
Kenneth Sloan
Mark

Post by Mark »

sloan wrote:
bloke wrote:
I truly believe, as just one other example of something similar, that the age of the great mathematicians is in our past - as mathematicians now punch buttons, rather than putting pen to paper...and (as just one more example) how many hi skool and kollij gadjits nowudaze noze hau 2 spel?
How many mathematicians do you know, Bloke?

What is your Erdos number?
I've known a few mathematicians and some of them have never used a computer. Bloke is making the classic mistake of equating mathematics with arithmetic.
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Post by Joe Baker »

sloan wrote:
harold wrote:
As for classifications, I believe that there are two types of people: those that classify things into two groups and those that don't.
There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
That's only 10 types. What's the 11th one?
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who is the first type.
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Post by Rick Denney »

Mark wrote:I've known a few mathematicians and some of them have never used a computer. Bloke is making the classic mistake of equating mathematics with arithmetic.
That is a very common mistake. Many people (accountants come to mind) are good one one and not the other. Many are afraid of math because of trouble they have had with arithmetic.

Rick "who knows at least one mathemetician also known to Mark" Denney
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Post by windshieldbug »

Joe Baker wrote:
sloan wrote:
harold wrote:
As for classifications, I believe that there are two types of people: those that classify things into two groups and those that don't.
There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
That's only 10 types. What's the 11th one?
That's only 01 types. What are 10 and 11? (c'mon, 00 counts!)
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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Post by sloan »

Joe Baker wrote:
sloan wrote:
harold wrote:
As for classifications, I believe that there are two types of people: those that classify things into two groups and those that don't.
There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
That's only 10 types. What's the 11th one?
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who is the first type.
Whooooosh!
Kenneth Sloan
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Post by imperialbari »

sloan wrote:
Joe Baker wrote:
sloan wrote: There are 11 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
That's only 10 types. What's the 11th one?
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who is the first type.
Whooooosh!
Thanks to Joe B for replying ahead of me!

But then Kenneth has one advantage over a lot of us:

He has no need to keep a bull!

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre
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Post by imperialbari »

bloke wrote:
sloan wrote:
My grandfather stood at the lathe so that my father could sit at the drafting table so that I could stare at a computer screen so that my sons can study music.

Repeat as necessary.
My grandfather was a bank vice president so that my father could be a bank president/corporate executive. I paid for my own kollig (since I wasn't getting a bidness degree), gadjiated summo come loud, taught at a couple o' kollijiz, and eventually turned from most of that disconnected b.s. (corporate/academic) to stand at a lathe after drafting out plans (ahhhhhh...the gratifying world of 3D :D ).

bloke "who has done other things as well - including being a perfeshunul toobuh playuh and being a landlord to a bank" :shock:
Joe, I may have studied a few more languages than you, possibly also more history, math, and musicology. But what you exercise in this posting is intellectually a pure joy to read. In its own way it equals, what one of your political antagonists has done on this board.

This board may have a dozen really sharp posters, some of them sadly not very active. You are in the dirty half of that dozen, but you are in good company.

And the dirty portion fortunately is not about your business practices. You are no rural stinker.

I have noticed your number of postings. That amazing productivity makes one wonder, how you get the time to do your brass magics in several senses.

As you may have discovered, I put an agent on you (Code D). D tells, that you are going rural. Hopefully you will stay on the web.

And if you want to reach Alabamaian qualities of production as recently demonstrated here, then you can keep your own bull. Covering double purposes it should be a Jersey.

Sorry for writing in code. The dirty as well as the less dirty halves of the dozen will be able to crack it.

To sum up my ideas: to be a complete musician takes talent, but even talent needs education. And worst of all even well educated talents need to work very hard.

But then even us lesser talents (not including Joe in this statement) may have a lot of fun from doing the education and hard working stuff.

For those hopefully not so few ending up being convinced, that a thorough knowledge of scales and arpeggios is part of the hard work portion:

My project of uploading free music encompasses a quite thorough scale training system adapted to any combination of reading system and instrument pitch normally found on this board. The link is in my signature.(Please read the preface before starting the printer).

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre
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Post by BVD Press »

Please pardon the interruption:

What are the odds Bloke will get to 6000 posts by the end of this thread?

end of interruption.
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Post by MartyNeilan »

I have thought about adding something earlier to the transposition thread, but hung back. Since the finger seems to be pointing at me now, I have done some rather creative transcriptions, including my favorite - Bach Brandenburg #2, trupet gospel solos, horn and cello works, a trumpet virtuoso piece Concertpiece (Curnow) first performed by Phil Smith at my school, and the requisite Stars and Stripes pic solo when I was 16. In my MIDI alter-ego, I have done everything and anything under the sun, often live and not sequenced, as creatively as possible. The key to all this? I NEVER WROTE ANYTHING DOWN.
My take on transcribing is know clefs, transpositions, etc. Know how to read trumpet music fluently on BBb, CC, and F tuba (and Eb if that's what ya got). Even if your tenor and alto clef may be a hair rusty (no more), make absolute best friends with treble clef despite being a tuba player - no excuses. Know Bb and Eb transpositions, as there is a lot of clarinet, trumpet, and sax stuff out there you may want to devour. Be able to play every piece you have on every horn you have, no matter how high or low, fast or slow.
The majority of solo stuff I have played over the years was never written for tuba, but noone ever complained when I played it. Make your own solos.
End sermon.

P.S. My grandfather was a German machinist and told me to never be a "workhorse." He lived into his early seventies and never made more than a modest income, but was able to support his family and never spent more than a weekend unemployed his entire life. My stepfather was in insurance and I made more than he ever did when I was 23. He also passed away at the extremely young age of 45. I am not sure how any of this is related to anything.
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Post by windshieldbug »

BVD Press wrote:What are the odds Bloke will get to 6000 posts by the end of this thread?
100%, since he's hit 6000 and this thread isn't finished or locked yet... 8)
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
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