Begin with Smaller Tuba?

[tubatooter1940]

I was 5 feet 3 inches and 120 pounds when I started on tuba. My Conn sousie was on a solid stand and they let me play snare drum in the long Mardi Gras parades. Street beats are cool.

[Alex F]

[quote=". . .but the little Yamaha sure made playing easier and more fun. Any thoughts? . . ./quote]

Brian:

I think you have answered your own question. You can always buy another tuba (or three) later.

Blow to your heart's content.

Alex F.

[iiipopes]

That's one of the great things about hanging out with tuba players. Unlike most instruments, tubas seem to be very personal to their players, almost like they have to be tailored. So there is none of this b....... of, "Man, you gotta have x brand with y mods to be...." I play regularly with guys with the following: MW Bell CC, Miraphone 186, Conn 11J, Star GDR stencil, my own Besson 3-v comp & Cav souzy, etc. And in the various groups, (not all of these guys are in the same group) we all sound fine together. Most of sounding good on a tuba from a psychological standpoint is liking your instrument so you can relax and blow the thing, because any tension will really kill air, and thus tone. Go check out a Tuba Christmas somewhere so you can see the great diversity that all get along great, and help each other get the best out of their respective instruments. Now, if the rest of the world would get a clue the same way!

[imperialbari]

I deduct that we are talking about the YBB-621S BBb tuba.

Personally I am mostly into large Eb’s and BBb’s, but I have a small Eb Besson from 1870 with a long cylindrical bore lesser than the ones found in the 4th valve of most pro euphoniums. I am surprise about, what it can do.

Most small bore BBb tubas are cheaply made after a not too well researched design. This does NOT go for the YBB-621S BBb tuba.

In smaller groups you will fit in just fine. In larger ensembles you will add definition to the tuba section due to the different overtone pattern.

Don’t expect to be able to provide a solid foundation for a 40 or 50 piece community band as the lone tuba player. That would be tough even on a much larger instrument.

But if you like the YBB-621S BBb tuba and can make it sound to your taste, then you safely can buy it (with the usual disclaimers about state of repair and tightness of valves, if we are speaking of a second hand deal).

Go enjoy!

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Lew]

I deduct that we are talking about the YBB-621S BBb tuba.

Most small bore BBb tubas are cheaply made after a not too well researched design. This does NOT go for the YBB-621S BBb tuba.

nd deal).

Go enjoy!

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

Thanks for all the great advice. Are there any other quality smaller bore tubas out there? I don't mind if they are larger than the YBB-621S. And yes, Klaus, I meant the 621S...the tag at the music store made the "S" look like a "5."

Brian

The Yamaha 621 has a bore of 0.689", which I would put at medium rather than small. The King 2341 has the same bore, and is a good tuba to try. It should cost less than a new Yamaha 621 and be able to provide a bigger sound.

[sloan]

[quote="Lew The Yamaha 621 has a bore of 0.689", which I would put at medium rather than small. The King 2341 has the same bore, and is a good tuba to try. It should cost less than a new Yamaha 621 and be able to provide a bigger sound.[/quote]

I agree.

I also "came back" after 25 years off, and I started the comeback by purchasing a new YBB-621S. I still have it, but use it rarely.

When the new, new King 2341 arrived, I bought one of those. That's now my main axe.

The Yamaha 621S is, in my opinion, a "niche" instrument. If it's what you need, it's great! It's also fairly expensive. So, I would say that IF YOU HAVE TO ASK it's probably not the right choice for you. (note: I didn't really have to ask when I bought mine - I did a LOT of research - and it turned out well for me. It's also true that the new King 2341 did not exist at that time.)

Today, if you like pistons, I don't think there's any reason to look beyond the King 2341. Find a place that keeps several in stock, and knows how to "tweak" them, and go to pick one out.

If you prefer rotary valves, I'd look at a very old (but still sound) Miraphone 186 or a new VMI3301 (or one of its several stenciled versions).

But that's just me. Another perfectly good option is to visit one of the several places that serve as clearing houses for used tubas, bring your checkbook, and select something (anything) that fits your budget. Remember that this is your FIRST tuba....there will be more....many more - esp. if you catch the Denney-Smith virus.

[quinterbourne]

Thanks for all the great advice. Are there any other quality smaller bore tubas out there? I don't mind if they are larger than the YBB-621S. And yes, Klaus, I meant the 621S...the tag at the music store made the "S" look like a "5."

Brian

I don't know much about BBb tubas, mainly CC tubas. Usually CC tubas come with BBb "equivalents" that you could look for.

Other small bore (CC) instruments I know of are the old Conn 2J/3J models. I know these come in BBb because I've played them before, not sure of the model number. I believe these Conn's may even have smaller bores than the Yamaha 621. The 2J/3J are bigger than the Yamaha. The Yamaha is a 3/4 while the Conn is like a... 3.5/4.

Another one is the newer Conn 52J/54J/56J. They have the .689 bore like the Yamaha 621. These are considered to be full 4/4 tubas (based on size) and they also have some pretty big bells. I don't know if they have BBb equivalents.

Your Yamaha 621 BBb tuba has .689 bore, 14 3/8 inch bell and is 3/4 size.

Other Yamahas:
Yamaha 631 BBb tuba. It has 689-.768 graduated bore, 17 1/2 inch bell and is 4/4 size. This has the 3+1 compensating valve set-up.

Yamaha 321 BBb tuba. It was a larger bore: .728. It also has a 17 1/2 inch bell and is 4/4 size. This has 4 in-line valves and they are top action.

Other BBb tubas:
Holton TU331BB (Harvey Phillips model). 3/4 size, .687 bore, 19 inch bell and 4 front action piston valves.
Buy it used here.

[imperialbari]

Formally it is true, that the YBB-621 has the same bore, 0.689", as other BBb tubas (YBB-631, the new King, the King sousaphone, and probably more models from more makers).

But then please let me call the YBB-621 a compact tuba. After all it shares its bell and probably outer bows and branches with the YFB-621 and the YCB-621.

And compact is not a derogative, when it is a matter of playability after returning from a longer hiatus.

If I were to start beginners today, which hardly will happen, I would probably go for the current YBB-1xx, which also uses the same bell, but has a much smaller bore.

From the Edinburgh Tattoo I have seen a WAC/WAR band drill, where a less than 5’ lady schlepped around on a large 3+1 comp Brit BBb. A bit too comical a sight for military purposes.

An equivalent of the US national guards Danish female navy band used the small Yamahas for their drill displays. Hardly a massive sound, but a somewhat more elegant sight.

So there is nothing wrong in going for manageable instruments.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[iiipopes]

King made a CC to go with what is now called the 1240/1241 BBb before WWII. All the cyborg did was pull out the old plans and add a 5th valve, which of course they didn't do all that well being that they just tacked it on. Somewhere on the forum is another thread that talks about someone taking a Conn 5XJ, putting a York bell on it, redoing the 5th valve with a larger one in a better place, and making it into a much better horn as a result.

[windshieldbug]

Just don't go too small...

[imperialbari]

Once again, I appreciate everyone's suggestions. This is a thoughtful, helpful and very polite group. Some of you suggested a King 2341. I can get access to a used King 2341, a version with a detachable bell (I understand the new version does not have a detachable bell). It's in very good condition; a music store used it as a "loaner" for a short period of time when tubas were being repaired. Any thoughts?

The better samples of the old King BBb’s had no bad reputation. If you like it as well as the YBB-621, you will get a more standard sized instrument, but still not a real biggie. So it should be manageable. (The disclaimers about the relationships between price and state of repair/valve tightness still are standing).

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[Lew]

...

If you prefer rotary valves, I'd look at a very old (but still sound) Miraphone 186 or a new VMI3301 (or one of its several stenciled versions).
...

The VMI 3301 is a good tuba, but is a piston valve horn. I think Dr. Sloan meant to say VMI 2301.

Once again, I appreciate everyone's suggestions. This is a thoughtful, helpful and very polite group. Some of you suggested a King 2341. I can get access to a used King 2341, a version with a detachable bell (I understand the new version does not have a detachable bell). It's in very good condition; a music store used it as a "loaner" for a short period of time when tubas were being repaired. Any thoughts?

I had one of the 2 piece 2341s that I purchased new in the early 90s. At the time I was just getting back into playing after 18 years away. After 9 years I decided that I had trouble getting the low range, below low G, to speak the way I wanted. I switched to the newer one piece King and have been very happy with it. Other 2 piece versions that I have tried have not had the same problem as mine, so it could have just been the horn. In general I think that the 2 piece King, would be a great horn to get back into playing with. In very good to excellent condition it should sell for between $2-3000.

[sloan]

[quote="Lew
The VMI 3301 is a good tuba, but is a piston valve horn. I think Dr. Sloan meant to say VMI 2301.
[/quote]

Yup - my bad.

On the old 2341 - it's an OK choice and a good horn, just not my FIRST choice. If you find one in good condition for a good price, it would be just fine.

[sloan]

One of the most valuable rules of thumb I have obtained in the music world is, "find what you like, and stick with it." This could be said of either mouthpieces, or the instruments themselves. If you like the Yamaha, why "force" yourself to play anything else?

Well...in this particular case: because the YBB-621S is a tad small (in sound) for a large ensemble. It's great for smaller groups - and simply superb if you should happen to need to play while standing - but it's not my first choice to the only (or even 1 of 3) tuba in a 60-piece wind ensemble.