A good 6/4 b flat tuba?

passion4tuba · Post by **passion4tuba** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:45 pm

I've been searchin alot of sites, looking for a nice 6/4 b flat tuba...no luck as of yet...help please? The ones i have found are sooo ugly...

since i'm talking about tubas...what's the best 6/4 b flat tuba on the market for a highschool player with highschool money? i think the most i could spend would be about...5 thousand...any help?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:32 pm

In your price range I would vote for an old Martin. You could probably buy two recording bell Martin's for your price, and have the money left over to buy one a new upright bell made by Kanstul here:
http://www.tubameister.com/
FWIW, I have heard some even prefer the newer upright bells because they are a heavier gauge brass.

If you decide you want to do the Conn 20J thing, spend some time with one and a tuner and see if you can handle the intonation; there are plenty of rabid 20J fans who do.

Charlie Goodman · Post by **Charlie Goodman** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:07 pm

Hey.

Don't get a 6/4.

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:05 pm

Hey!

Before we start telling this kid to forget about it why don't we ask WHY he wants a 6/4 tuba! Just maybe his reasons make sense. I personally love the sound of most 6/4 tubas, but then I am band kind of guy, not an orchestra player. There is a saying with band people... "you can't have too many tubas." Maybe his goal is not to play solos or play in chamber groups. He is from Texas where bands tend to be on the large size, so maybe he has his reasons.

BBb Holton 345's are great horns if you can find one, I have one. The old Martin BATs are good too, I have one in my possession at the moment and I love the sound it puts out. I also have a Conn 24J here for couple of days but it's sound has little "color", too blah sounding for my taste. But my suggestion would be to check out the Miraphone BBb 1291. Not quite a 6/4, but a great sound anyway. It is also near the price range the kid has in mind and can readily be found.

jacobg · Post by **jacobg** » Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:34 pm

Maybe he's 8 ft tall and weighs 500 lbs.

Since when is 5 grand "high school money"?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:46 am

The surprising thing is that a 4/4 like a 186 may well be heard better than a big American 6/4. Maybe it's the SUV mentality...

MikeMason · Post by **MikeMason** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:38 am

the phrase "size doesn't matter" is only said by guys with really little ones

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:42 am

Talk about your double entendre!

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:57 am

I would say that the Cerveny 601 is probably the closest thing to a 6/4 sized tuba available new in his price range. They are not as large as the old big Martins or Conn 2Xjs, but are easily as large as the Fafner, for a couple of grand less. The ones I have played have been good horns, although I find the bore to be too large for me. A Fafner will have more consistent quality, but a good 601 can be a fine horn for the money.

I do agree however with the person who suggested that a Mira 186 (or a King 2341 I would add) would probably serve most situations just as well.

THE TUBA · Post by **THE TUBA** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:08 am

A high school tuba player in SC has one of those huge Cervenys. He sounds like what sitting in front of a fire and drinking hot coco after being out in the cold feels like. He says that it is more like a 5/4, but if you're looking for a sound that is creamy, dark, warm, delicious, tender, ...

passion4tuba · Post by **passion4tuba** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:26 pm

Thanks alot for all the comments..the thing is i do have a private lesson teacher and he's letting me play his 6/4 for state solo and ensamble ( i have a solo). it was him letting me play on it to test it out a week or so ago that really made me wanna get one of my own. Also , a 6/4 tuba can't be versatile? And it's not all the volume that the horn produces that attracts me but more the size of the sound and quality, it seems i can feel all the air i use going throughout the horn..Im a fairly big guy (6'2 ,220) so i can handle the air it demands..or so says my lesson teacher. Plus since it's my and my dad's cash i would like to get a tuba i'm going to like..though i know in college i'm prolly going to have to get a CC tuba..but that's a lil ways off (10th grade now). But once again thanks for all the help! please keep em comming!

P.S-as for these tubas that have been recommended, where could i find them? i've been on tubaexchange.com as well as ebay... links anyone?

passion4tuba · Post by **passion4tuba** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:30 pm

o yes, and right now i'm playing on a mira 186, and yes it's ok and i have been complimented on the sound i have on it..but i still feel like it's not as responsive and holding me back a lil bit..(then again, the tuba hasnt been cleaned in over 20 years..

)

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:37 pm

Clean it out, and get a "solo" style mouthpice that will cut through all that noise. See how your director likes the sound, then. MUCH cheaper, and better for solo work, no matter whose money you're spending...

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:26 pm

A Rudy Meinl 45 is a "4/4" horn that is as big as a lot of other 5/4 horns. A Rudy Meinl 50 is in the BAT category. Expensive, but worth it.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:35 pm

THE TUBA wrote:A high school tuba player in SC has one of those huge Cervenys. He sounds like what sitting in front of a fire and drinking hot coco after being out in the cold feels like.

Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to blame the horn.....

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:26 pm

passion4tuba wrote:
P.S-as for these tubas that have been recommended, where could i find them? i've been on tubaexchange.com as well as ebay... links anyone?

Check out the Sponsors and Shops listed in the links on this site. The two you mentioned would not be my first choice of sources for buying a tuba.

GC · Post by GC » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:35 pm

A good Holton 345 is almost impossible to beat in that price range, if you can find one. The big Martins are great. A good Conn 24J or 25J is hard to beat for around half that, but a bad one isn't something I'd wish on anyone. I have a good one, but it was played and worked on by an expert.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 1:36 pm

There have been great large BBb tubas made in the past. But finding them is an exercise in patience, and that's hard for a 10th-grader to muster up when Dad's money is burning a hole in the pocket.

It took me several years to find a BBb BAT that I'm happy to use in all situations. And to keep it in your price range, I had to accept great playing quallities but battered everything else (though, Harold, there are no cracks in mine that I've found).

So, you have a choice: Increase your budget and buy a new one or increase your patience and wait for a good one to come along. When it does, be prepared to jump on it.

The new ones include the Rudolf Meinl 5/4 and the Meinl-Weston Fafner, but I don't think you'll be very happy with the characteristics of these instruments. They will command more air and have difference playing characteristics than the typical old American-style BAT. The Cerveny 601, likewise. More like the classic BAT is the Gronitz PBK (which will require both a larger budget AND a lot of patience) or a Willson 3100 (which does not at all play itself). Of these, and based only on the reputation of the CC version, I would prefer the Gronitz if you want the American BAT sound. The Rudy Meinl and the Fafner are great instruments, but they fall into a different category--kaisertuba rather than BAT.

The old ones include a Holton BB-345, a Martin Handcraft, a Conn 24J, or a range of instruments that are less likely to appear. All of these are old, and all of them may have condition issues. The 24J is relatively cheap and plentiful in this category, but it is the least likely to be a good general-purpose tuba. Holtons are not consistent at all. The good ones are great but the bad ones are dreadful. Perhaps the bad ones can be made good with enough restoration and tweaking money, but then your budget will be blown. Martin Handcrafts are superb and seem to me more consistenly so, but they are a good bit more rare in the first place.

Old Bb Holtons have been more available in the last couple of years than they were in many years before that. I suspect I've contributed to that with what I've written about mine and what Tony wrote and showed about his as it was being overhauled by Dan Oberloh. But of those have have been available, only a few have approached the qualities I find in mine, which is a clear, open sound with lots of resonance and color. I've only seen two or three big Martins go by in the last couple of years, and only one that I recall with an upright bell. Conns go by more often, and more cheaply. I had a 20J with a forward bell, and that instrument not only had intonation problems that were manageable but not easily so, but also it could not play below about mf. The Holton can put a quiet floor under the group--the Conn could not. There are many better Conns than the 20J I owned.

Rick "who thinks it's a matter of positioning, waiting patiently, and then being ready to strike" Denney

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