Potential Danger of Doubling with Similar Size Mpcs?

[euphdude]

Hey Folks,

I had been playing on the Greg Black Joseph Alessi pieces since last August...on trombone these are the absolutely most fabulous pieces I've ever played. However, after doing some extensive euphonium playing the last couple of months I've come to the conclusion that I can't get it to work for me on euphonium. I had a JA2 made, which is the deepest one available. This mouthpiece produces a GREAT sound on euphonium, but for me it is a ton of work...flexibility was very, very difficult for me. I tried to find other pieces which were similarly sized, but nothing I tried really satisfied me.

Just for the heck of it I popped in my old Schilke 51D, and it sounded great and responded great, just like I had remembered it. For a couple of weeks I really tried to make the JA pieces on trombone work while playing the much smaller 51D on euph. It wasn't working and by the time I finally got adjusted to one, it was time to swictch to the other.

I tried several Bach mouthpieces for trombone and found that I actually like a plain old Bach 5GS. The 5GS size (25.50 mm) is supposedly very close to a Schilke 51D (25.55 mm). The rims are shaped ever so slightly different, but as long as I'm concentrating I can make the switch pretty well. The 5GS has the same rim as the 5G, but it has a shallower cup...more like a 6.5AL and it is great for focusing your tone to produce a good trombone sound. But then I remembered the following issue cited from the OTJ trombone site Mouthpiece Meditations:

"Citing Vincent Bach as a source, Reginald Fink warns that switching between mouthpieces with overlapping rim dimensions can cause embouchure problems. This warning is based on a theory that over time a groove is worn into the lips by the erosion of fat particles from within the muscles of the lip by the pressure of the mpc rim. According to Fink, playing more than 45 minutes at a time with a mouthpiece of slightly different rim size than the players usual choice disrupts the groove, affecting placement and control"

Should I be worried about this issue? The bottom line is do you think doubling with a 5GS on trombone and a Schilke 51D on euph will eventually have deleterious consequences for my amateur playing?

[windshieldbug]

I don't buy it.

First, for my money, you should be playing with as little pressure as possible, so I doubt that there is any "fat wearing" involved.

Second, when I developed what my teacher maintained were proper tuba chops, my playing improved vastly of everything I had already played, from trumpet to euphonium. I was even able to play baroque trumpet pieces at my sister's wedding.

I think what you are referring to is someone's perspective on trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn mouthpieces, and I don't even agree with that view, either!

[SqueakyOnion]

Just as a personal experience, I play euph mainly, but spend about 6-10 hours a week playing trombone. I use different mouthpieces (a 4G on trombone, and Wick SM4 on euph) and have felt no detrimental effects at all, even when I looked for them.

As I've heard more than one person say on the topic, "it's all in your head."

[quinterbourne]

I have had similar circumstances this year. I have been doing a fair amount of doubling between tuba and euphonium. I find it is like a "teeter-totter" effect - when I work up my chops on one instrument, the other one suffers. I know some people who can do it just fine, but I cannot.

However, the difference in mouthpiece size between tuba and euphonium is very significant, especially when compared to the difference between euphonium and trombone.

I also had the chance to play bass trombone in a local orchestra this year. I found that playing euphonium and bass trombone compliment each other, but they would both serve as a detriment to my tuba playing. Eventhough the mouthpiece change between the two instruments - Denis Wick 4AY on euph; Warburton 2L on bass bone - was fairly significant, I was still able to combine the two with decent results.

My theory is that you need to treat each instrument as a seperate instrument, so you need a unique mouthpiece for each one. However, I know a lot of trombone players who double on euphonium with the same mouthpiece they use on trombone, with remarkable success. I know a few tuba players who insist on using a euro shank Eb tuba mouthpiece on bass trombone and/or euphonium and that is just plain wrong!

Keep looking for the perfect combination, but see what using the same mouthpiece for each instrument is like.

[windshieldbug]

I tried doubling on barry sax, but the neighbors kept throwing rocks at me!

[DaTubaKid]

I found out in high school that doubling just takes a lot of time to get used to before you can get a good sound on both instruments consistently. For myself, I started playing trumpet in 6th grade, and tuba in 7th grade, but it wasn't until my senior year in high school when I could easily and comfortably switch instrument in a short period of time and still have a decent sound. My junior was particularly rough with my constant instrument shifting (attempting to play lead trumpet in a jazz ensemble does NOT work on tuba chops), but if you do it enough, it will become natural. During my senior year, I got to the point where I could buzz on my tuba mouthpiece as I walked to school in the morning, get out my trumpet and rehearse with the jazz band as soon as I walked in the door.

Was always painless though

[iiipopes]

I tried doubling on barry sax, but the neighbors kept throwing rocks at me!

What kind of Barry: Manilow, Bonds, Mortimer, etc,?

[windshieldbug]

What kind of Barry: Manilow, Bonds, Mortimer, etc,?

Dave Barry, the one with no asterisks behind his name...