Tuba Snobs?

[drewfus]

...Is this guy a good driver?

At least he's got his belt on!

With no hands on the wheel, I should hope so.

[tubeast]

The shiny-instrument = professional-musician connection generally seems to apply with the exception of trumpets and french horns. Nothing beats showing up for rehearsal with a Schilke trumpet, unlaquered, with signs of heating on the raw brass. Makes you look EXTREMELY sophisticated.
No dents, though.
Same goes for french horns: shiny body with raw brass screw-on bell, heavily (and shinily) gold plated on the inside seems to depict the TRUE master of the instrument.

[Lew]

I agree with everyone who says ignore them. When I still had my older 2 piece King 2341 I was playing with a community band in Orlando when we played a joint concert with a local college band. The tuba players with the college were playing on older Mirafone 186s that were in great shape, but they apparently coveted my King, based on comments overheard by one of our euphonium players. As long as what's heard out front is good ignor what anyone says about the horn.

[Tubaryan12]

But I am sure you would not go in stage with a dirty shirt, or unpolished shoes and no one pays you for those either!

Now you're assuming Bloke wears shoes

sorry, Bloke, I couldn't resist.

[Rick Denney]

Can tell you are American Bloke. US orchestras seem the worst in this respect!

Jonathan "who would give the prize for best presentation to German orchestras (maybe difference in work ethics)"

Ahhh, we have a little actual snobbery appearing. And it's the best kind: British!

Americans have been desensitized to shiny new-looking things because all it takes to have something that is shiny and that looks new is money. Americans (along with everyone else) like money and the things that it buys, but few believe in their heart of hearts that money and the things that it buys have any real value.

So, Americans are more likely to be impressed by the classic old car that is expertly maintained than by the shiny new one that anybody can own. That's why the riders of, say, a 1965 Harley Davidson smirk at those buying new ones, or, worse, imitations of Harleys made by Kawasaki and Yamaha.

Thus, instead of claiming that the Germans have a better work ethic, which my own professional experience cannot even begin to confirm, I think it is more plausible that they are still those who believe that shiny new things have actual value just because they are shiny and new. They need a little more economic development, perhaps, to get to the point where they no longer care.

Rick "who thinks cultural values usually provide little basis for ethical comparisons" Denney

[chipster55]

Upgrading my golf clubs to Cleveland, Taylor Made, etc. isn't going to make me a better golfer any more than upgrading from my Amati to a King, Conn, etc. going to make me a better musician/tuba player - so it's up to me to make myself a better golfer and musician. People get too wrapped up in what others have and "keeping up with the Jones'" - so to all the "tuba snobs" I say - sit down, shut up, and enjoy the music.

[hurricane_harry]

tuck, when i played my conn 2X J i was laughed at. it was dented to hell, duct tape eveywhere, bellfront, REAL bad. then they heard me play, and they just about shut up. it should matter the axe you play on as long as you sound good on it

[windshieldbug]

Bottom line: If you know enough to get a good axe, then you may also know enough to play it well.

That's ALL it means.
You could just be lucky, rich, or both. You could have junk, but know what to do with it.

When the baton drops, the bullsh#t stops!

[Tubaryan12]

Upgrading my golf clubs to Cleveland, Taylor Made, etc. isn't going to make me a better golfer

Blasphemer!!!!....Don't you know it's not you, It's your clubs? Oh, and don't forget, you need to have them properly fitted.

[Locky]

I am with you Jonathantuba.

Not because I am a fellow Brit but because I see performance is important "in the round". So it matters not if the instrument is old, as might be the shoes, trousers etc - the real issue boils down to "is the performer and performance of good quality, honest and well presented" - or taken together does it appear slovenly?

Jonathan your very "English" posts always have a calming air - keep them going. Ever try the Miraphone 1261? Or get to Nottingham?

[Locky]

You are welcome to come as well Bloke.

[tofu]

In business I have always believed in under promising and over delivering. I think the same is true for instruments in a way.

With a rotten looking horn folks are amazed at how can you play that old looking thing so well. I also sense that for traditional jazz folks don't feel it is quite the real thing when the the instruments are all shiny and the tuba player has a nice new looking Miraphone 186.

Around here folks are sophisticated enough to have seen Preservation Hall or the Olympia Jazz Band and they expect good jazz to come from guys wearing worn clothing and playing old looking instruments. They don't expect it from the guys with the shiny horns and starched white shirts who play jazz from written music on the stands.

[iiipopes]

As Locky said, there is a difference between veteran, but well kept, and slovenly. Remember that patches on the elbows of tweed jackets were once simply a repair, not a fashion statement. What does that have to do with anything? About the same difference as one scratch is a scratch, but a whole bunch of them is patina.

It's probably not fair, and borders on stereotype, but one of the points of the "old horn" look is how the horn got that way. For example, if you see a tuba with worn bows, losing lacquer, and some significant, but apparently well done repairs, what comes across, for better or worse, is a little different, and usually looked upon with respect, than a tuba with a large crease in the bell, half-hammered dents and what we may call messy solder repairs, although both may have come by their character honestly, or through no fault of the performer.

No one thinks twice about an old Selmer sax with no lacquer and a couple of red spots on the bell flare. They think about how many gigs it must have been a part of that people enjoyed. But for some reason, tubists and other brass seem to be reprimanded for such. No, I'm not paranoid. I just observe. The reflections off the bells are so much more noticable. My souzy looks like corroded brown hell on the bugle, but the bell is a beautiful aged deep gold lacquer with the appropriate patina that is easy to keep clean with a slight wipe of a soft cloth, so no one notices the difference.

It does boil down to perception. Before the first note even sounds, does the person come across as a (whether professional or amateur) competent, attentive musician with his/her dress, manner, appearance and instrument in hand? Remember, only you can dissolve stereotypes.

Military and other gigs where regs of decorum override are not a part of this post, as they are a different situation and to be respected accordingly.

[Rick Denney]

However, what I am saying is that as musicians we are in the entertainment industry and although the music produced should always come first, appearance does matter to the paying audience.

No, I think I understood you, and this sentence confirms it for me. My point was that American audiences might actually be more impressed if the instruments are a bit tatty looking, because that provides evidence that they were selected on the musical merits and not just because they were new and shiny. We Americans are so accustomed to buying new and shiny stuff that we have taught ourselves not to trust it.

Rick "who thinks frequent enough polishing will eventually result in an Air Tuba" Denney

[Dean E]

However, what I am saying is that as musicians we are in the entertainment industry and although the music produced should always come first, appearance does matter to the paying audience.

No, I think I understood you, and this sentence confirms it for me. My point was that American audiences might actually be more impressed if the instruments are a bit tatty looking, because that provides evidence that they were selected on the musical merits and not just because they were new and shiny. We Americans are so accustomed to buying new and shiny stuff that we have taught ourselves not to trust it.

Rick "who thinks frequent enough polishing will eventually result in an Air Tuba" Denney

Everything old is new again.

Would there be a market for new, but pre-stressed tubas? Similar to buyers of acid-washed jeans and distressed furniture, musicians could show their hipness and taste, with a premium price.

[windshieldbug]

Would there be a market for new, but pre-stressed tubas?

We already have to play with violas!