WTB "Small Shank" or "Eb" mouthpiece

[jacobg]

I'm looking for a used small shank tuba mouthpiece that would fit a mid '50s Conn 14J. Sometimes these are called "Eb" mouthpieces. I don't care about the brand. I'm looking for one that still has plating on the rim and inside and doesn't need to have any work done to be playable. I'd prefer a smallish one since this is a smallish tuba. This is going to be used by a beginning student who won't play much classical.
Denis Wick 3, 4, or 5 would be ok if it's used. Conn "Standard" would be perfect. Any other brands ok, even generic, as long as they have that small shank (similar to bass bone shank). I'd like to pay less than the cost of a new Denis Wick, which seems to be the cheapest option so far at about $70.

[iiipopes]

Are you the guy who just bought the bargain of the week 14J off eBay for $295?

[jacobg]

No, unfortunately I bought my 14j last month from a local seller for $180. It's a public school relic.

[iiipopes]

AAAAAHHHHHHHH!
(cough, recomposes)
Congrats on the great deal. Perantucci also makes small shank mouthpieces, but getting one used is probably not going to happen. Keep a search going on eBay, they show up more often than you might think, especially since the Wick 3 is (was?) standard issue for a Besson 98X.

[iiipopes]

Belltrouble: I respectfully disagree. I play both a Besson BBb 3-valve comp with the older smaller receiver, and have played Eb's of various vintages along the way. They all take the same identical shank in the receiver, and it is larger than a bass trombone shank, but smaller than an American standard tuba shank. I use the same Wick mouthpieces in all of them. I can't find the original URL, but please read this article by Matt Walters of Dillon Music which is the definitive text on tuba mouthpiece shank sizes:
http://www.angus1.com/ssh/shank.htm

[jacobg]

What size shank do you think this one is?

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-Like-NEW-G- ... dZViewItem

[iiipopes]

As the model number suggests, I believe the reason it is NOS is that it is most probably a mouthpiece for a Besson G bass trombone. I don't know what the receiver specs are on that particular instrument.

[Donn]

My Eb has a smaller receiver than the bass trombones I have played on (bach and getzen), I could tell because of the wear on my mouthpiece.

Similarly, I guess, a large shank Schilke 51D is a little large for my Orsi Eb tuba's receiver, though it does go in. The Wick 5 fits a little better, seems a hair narrower in the shank.

Common tuba mouthpieces do not go into the receiver at all, so while the DW was in the mail, I used duct tape and stuff with a C4.

[iiipopes]

While we're discussing Italian instruments, I have on loan an English styled Italian baritone of an obscure make, which I'll probably have to start a thread to see if anyone has heard of it, on which the mouthpiece, instead of being a "standard" tenor bone shank, is even smaller, more like a trumpet shank. So, as the Italians are second only to the French with their xenophobia, I would not care to touch with even a ten foot pole the supposed rationale that Italian brass instrument makers use in designing the receivers for their instruments. It's hard enough just figuring out how to tune the engine of an Italian sports car, especially if it has side draught 45 Webers!

[Donn]

an English styled Italian baritone

If there were any Italians hanging around Tubenet, they might wonder why you expect a flicorno tenore to match the dimensions of an English baritone.

[iiipopes]

Let them wonder. The measurements -- bell, bore, general layout, Bb pitch, etc., are what they are: Bb baritone and not euphonium scale. I didn't expect it to be that way. I was just rummaging in the back of the Shrine band closet and came across it, so I got it out to see what it is and how playable it is. It's in great shape, with the original mouthpiece an nary a dent anywhere, with the lacquer aged to a nice golden hue. Since there is an Italian name for the instrument, I'll say instead that it is a baritone styled flicorno tenore instead. The mouthpiece, being so different in shank and more like a tenor horn cup, is taking me awhile to get used to, so I can't give you any significant playing impressions yet. Stay tuned for a new thread near you.

[jacobg]

I've found a solution to my quest, and in a most unusual place. It turns out the cheapest and easiest mouthpiece to find that fits an old Eb American tuba or old European tuba is a new one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

Chinese Made no-name Denis Wick 3 clone (although it's styled differently), small shank (like a bass trombone), plays very well on my Conn 14J and fits in the receiver the proper depth.

[kegmcnabb]

I've found a solution to my quest, and in a most unusual place. It turns out the cheapest and easiest mouthpiece to find that fits an old Eb American tuba or old European tuba is a new one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1

Chinese Made no-name Denis Wick 3 clone (although it's styled differently), small shank (like a bass trombone), plays very well on my Conn 14J and fits in the receiver the proper depth.

I use one of these on my little Amati Eb. It works pretty good. The plating seems thin but for basically $20 including shipping it'll work till I find a good used authentic Wick or until Kelly puts out their 24AW with a small shank.

[Donn]

Chinese Made no-name Denis Wick 3 clone (although it's styled differently)

I have lent out my DW 2 so can't directly compare, but they look roughly the same to me. Current production DW don't look at all like the old mouthpieces pictured on their web site. It certainly isn't an esthetic improvement, but maybe there's some "mega" gimmick to it.

[jacobg]

Now that China is the only place able to make a profit from oddities such as antique American Eb tuba mouthpiece replicas, what else will we soon see produced there? There are a number of things which would have a succesful market in the US and Europe but are prohibitive because of the high cost of labor. Many people, like me, are willing to settle for playable, bargain-rate equipment as opposed to masterly crafted, expensive, finely tooled versions. I'm sure most classical players would scorn my Denis Wick knock-off as having bad intonation, thin plating, etc. but for the beginner student who will use it, it's perfect. Will we see

C Sousaphones
4 valve sousaphones
Helicons of every key and size
Valve bass trombones
Budget, no-frills Cimbassos
G and F bass trombones
C trombones
budget (student?!) alto trombones
Recording bell tubas
Double-bell baritones and euphoniums
Echo-bell trumpets

None of these things can be purchased easily in the US or Europe (not even used ones). Is China the answer?

[Donn]

None of these things can be purchased easily in the US or Europe (not even used ones). Is China the answer?

No, India! Land of mystery, source of the astounding baritone helicon, left handed tuba and other marvels.

I believe they actually use sousaphones and other brass instruments, maybe more than we do in the west. Who knows what they're up to over there.

[iiipopes]

Will we see:

C Sousaphones
4 valve sousaphones
Helicons of every key and size
Valve bass trombones
Budget, no-frills Cimbassos
G and F bass trombones
C trombones
budget (student?!) alto trombones
Recording bell tubas
Double-bell baritones and euphoniums
Echo-bell trumpets

None of these things can be purchased easily in the US or Europe (not even used ones). Is China the answer?

And all will be marketed as "stylish," "popular," or any number of other adjectives better used to describe apparel, and with the imprecise translated name, like on eBay where I've seen pocket trumpets advertised as tubas, etc.