Repair Guys...

[windshieldbug]

What tools do think would be necessary to begin basic tuba-sousa' repair?

(OK, I know I'm an a@@hole, but there it was; low, slow, and over the plate... )

[Rick Denney]

Never heard of Fast Eddie.

A fast Eddie is like a rolling pin on an extended shaft. You clamp the shaft in a dent-rod vice, and use the fast Eddie to roll out dents in bells. It's a really handy tool for cleaning up a bell. Made and sold by Ferree's.

Rick "who thinks it's useful even for those who don't have dent balls or a Z60" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

Never heard of Fast Eddie.

A fast Eddie is like a rolling pin on an extended shaft. You clamp the shaft in a dent-rod vice, and use the fast Eddie to roll out dents in bells. It's a really handy tool for cleaning up a bell. Made and sold by Ferree's.

Rick "who thinks it's useful even for those who don't have dent balls or a Z60" Denney

Rick, I know that Ferree's has rollers like the Fast Eddie, but the original was made and sold by Ed Strege of Badger State (who I think still sells them).

Votaw also sells a very nice oversize version that I've been salivating over:

http://www.votawtool.com/zcom.asp?pg=pr ... c=jnopoqj0

[iiipopes]

I live in the same metropolitan area where Votaw makes his tools. Absolutely superlative in all aspects. He started out as a repairman, made his own tools when either there weren't any out there to do the particular job he needed to do, or was dissatisfied with what was available. Over time, he realized he could make more of an impact (double entendre intended) and, well let's be real, make more money with less headaches selling the tools he developed than just repairing horns. The rest is history in the making.

[Dan Schultz]

Not so much as a dent ball set or even a Fast Eddie in the lot!

Never heard of Fast Eddie. He doesn't seem to live on Google.

Even though I have four different sizes of rollers... including the nifty tapered one for small bells, I am currently yearning for a set of these that Ferree's offers:



Maybe someone will get them for me for my birthday next week!

[Daniel C. Oberloh]

I am going to invest in some repair tools to begin working on my horns. What tools do think would be necessary to begin basic tuba-sousa' repair? Mandrels, Dent Balls, Dent rods...?

Thanks for any info.

Great, its good to see someone with such ambition!

Well, hmm.... I guess the only thing I can suggest is some of the basics. Don't kid yourself thinking you're going to pick this up real fast, it's going to take time. First, got a good safe place to work with lighting and room? Working on brass instruments can get messy and has been known to burn down a building or two. You need to be safe. Get your self a good heavy apron, disposable dust masks and a good pair of SAFETY GLASSES!

lots of good and interesting suggestions made so far, I will do my best to add what I can.

Simple hand tools such as good quality rawhide hammers, mallets, ball-peans, wire cutters, square-jaw pliers, a good assortment of screw-drivers, files, grinding disks and arbors, razor blades, etc are a good place to start. A decent bench motor is a good handy tool to have and was one of the best investments I could have made the first year I started working on the bench. Also get a bar of tripoli and white-diamond compound and a spool of wicking for strapping your solder work.

You are going to need to get a feel for the basics and the basics don't call for the use or need of a dent machine. You need to learn how to solder and how to do it well. My starting point was with the torch (Prestolite or Goss), acetylene and air set up. This is the simplest and in my opinion, the best for the job - propane is not hot enough for the work we are doing. 70/30 lead-tin solder and Nokorode paste flux, get some flux brushes too, they're cheap. Get the best assortment of torch heads, large and small. You can silver-solder with this set up for now, if you need to but in time an oxy-acetylene outfit will be a good addition.

You are going to need to learn how to perform basic dent removal. A simple "Fast Eddie" type roller will do fine, Ferrees makes a long one that is more versatile and can be used on all sizes of bells with less risk of slipping over the edges and putting creases in the bell. The knuckle rods and all the other smaller dent rods and balls would be the next thing to get, they are used to remove dents in valve casing ports and slide crooks. I would suggest the basic small Ferrees 101 dent barrel set and a standard non-adjustable Roth tool from SW with additional 16 and 19 gage binding wire. Standard burnishers and dent hammers from Ferrees are another thing that should be first on the list. You can get roller type burnishers later, when you can afford them and have a good enough feel for the work that you are able to use them properly and with good effect.

Because it is best to start working on small brass instruments, I would suggest the standard tapered mandrels Ferrees offers, there are about five or six if I recall correctly. Work your way up and only buy what you need at the time. The larger rods, balls and barrels should come along as you need them as will a dent machine. Best of luck

Daniel C. Oberloh, The Henry Higgens (according to Rick Denny) of band instrument repair.
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, Wa
www.oberloh.com

[John Caves]

AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL OF YOUR GREAT IDEAS!

I APPRECIATE THEM ALL!

[pulseczar]

if you're gonna buy horns to tinker around with, penetrating oil will speed up the process of removing stuck slides.

[prototypedenNIS]

are you telling me there's no shop in Houston that you could go to and ask for what types of tools they use?

[tbn.al]

No wonder you repair techs are so cynical. Your customers have made you that way. I am pretty handy but I learned a valuble lesson early from my repair guys, Lee Stofer and Rich
Ita. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO FIX YOUR HORN YOURSELF. TAKE IT TO A GOOD PRO AND PAY WHAT EVER HE WANTS. There is no telling how much that philosphy has saved me.

[windshieldbug]

I can't imagine why these losers are badmouthing you guys... you're helping THEM out!

I've done work on my horns, but not because I thought I was any better, or because I was cheap; just because I needed the horn too fast! (my old horns are a hobby!) I've gladly paid whatever was asked when I needed to have my half-a@@ed work corrected!

[Lee Stofer]

One of the lessons I learned early-on in the repair business is that you cannot please some people, no matter what you do.

[Lew]

One thing I learned at an early age was that tools and I don't get along. Any work on my horns other than a warm bath or oil and grease goes to a professional. Cleanings and alignment are done locally, for anything major I ship it to someone with a good reputation or with whom I have good experience. I appreciate the expertise of those of you who have taken the time and have the skill and tools to do the job right.

I also believe that good work takes time. Expecting someone to drop everything to do a major job usually results in lesser work. Even the best can make mistakes when under time pressure. Take your time, do it right, and pay for quality. This means that it is taking a while to get all of my horns in playing condition, but I know that the end result will be worth it.

[iiipopes]

I'm lucky in that, knowing good instruments can be fubar, my butchering was done on a POS that was purchased specifically for the purpose. I learned several things:
1) What I can and can't do myself, given my abilities and available tools,
2) When I need something done, exactly what to ask for so I don't waste diagnostic time, or at least narrow down the universe to specific areas if it's something nebulous, and
3) Develop an appreciation of the time, effort, and ultimately what a great deal I'm getting because usually not only is the problem fixed, but along the way a detail or two is customized for me and my ergonomics and style of playing, making the instrument play even better for me.

[Rick Denney]

I'm lucky in that, knowing good instruments can be fubar, my butchering was done on a POS that was purchased specifically for the purpose. I learned several things:
1) What I can and can't do myself, given my abilities and available tools,
2) When I need something done, exactly what to ask for so I don't waste diagnostic time, or at least narrow down the universe to specific areas if it's something nebulous, and
3) Develop an appreciation of the time, effort, and ultimately what a great deal I'm getting because usually not only is the problem fixed, but along the way a detail or two is customized for me and my ergonomics and style of playing, making the instrument play even better for me.

What he said.



Rick "who named this one 'soldering practice'" Denney