What Kind Of Horn Is This???

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:45 pm

The link does not work.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:37 pm

Scooby Tuba wrote:It's a 3 valve compensating rotary BBb tuba that Peter Sr. patented years ago.

+1

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:45 pm

Scooby is right!

The master valve is the 3rd one. Its tubing runs back through the 2-story 1st and 2nd rotors. Whenever these 2 first rotors are activated in combination with the 3rd rotor, the airpath will be lead through the two small compensation loops seen on the rear view of the tuba.

Blaikley patented 3 valve piston brasses in the UK around 1878. For many yeras they were, maybe still are, the standard with the small bore British baritone. The latest development as of some 10 or 12 years ago is a 3+1 comp baritone. I donâ€™t know how well it has caught a foothold in the brass band movement. The early samples did not impress me considering their price tags.

There are lots of samples of 3 piston comp euphs, Eb bass tubas, and BBb contrabass tubas, but they never were popular with top bands.

When I met Steven Mead in 1998(?), he revealed the purpose of these 3 piston comping heavy brasses: they were intended for the mounted bands of the British army. the players had no left hand available for the 4th valve. It was occupied by the reins.

The German folksy marching bands are flooded with 3 rotors-only BBb basses, often of pretty impressive dimensions, and often very well made.

But I am not the greatest fan of 3 valve BBb contrabasses. Important low notes like C and F are bound to be sharp. So I actually find the unique Hirsbrunner 3 rotor comper a good idea.

A month or so ago I watched a Norwegian tattoo (military display) on TV. The US Army Field Band started out with a slow hymn dedicated to their fallen comrades (the proper title sadly forgotten). They played with a beauty and a level of intonation, which was breathtaking. Except on chords with a C or an F as the root. Their 3 valve sousaphones could not get these notes right.

So 3 valve compensating BBb basses certainly have a function.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:51 am

imperialbari wrote:But I am not the greatest fan of 3 valve BBb contrabasses. Important low notes like C and F are bound to be sharp. So I actually find the unique Hirsbrunner 3 rotor comper a good idea.

A month or so ago I watched a Norwegian tattoo (military display) on TV. The US Army Field Band started out with a slow hymn dedicated to their fallen comrades (the proper title sadly forgotten). They played with a beauty and a level of intonation, which was breathtaking. Except on chords with a C or an F as the root. Their 3 valve sousaphones could not get these notes right.

So 3 valve compensating BBb basses certainly have a function.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

They certainly do! I resemble that remark!

The sousaphone problem can be solved by pulling 3 to get 23 in tune, then having your tech take the top loop of the 1st valve slide and turning it into a usable slide to pull, as I have done. The slide is right where your left hand naturally is when you play. C and low F are no longer sharp, and G & D actually slot in as well, with a pull about the same length as the diameter of the slide.

Does anybody know if this particular horn is for sale? Does anybody know if HB made more?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:45 pm

I don't know, but it would be nice to have next to my Besson.

BTW: what's the bore on this critter? I'm sure it can't be too large due to the increased mass of the double thickness rotors on 1 & 2, which would create more friction due to more surface area, and therefore risk being sluggish, for that reason as well as because of being twice the mass of a conventional rotor. This would be in contrast to a compensating piston valve, which due to the manner of construction, is not twice as long, but more like only 1/3 to 2/5 longer, and directly sprung rather than relying on linkage.

Oh, yeah: the "+1" is a reference to those four valve compensating instruments, both tuba and euph, which have the 4th valve down for the left hand, away from the valve block. But on this tuba and my Besson, there are only three valves, not four, so there is no "+1."

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:19 am

iiipopes wrote:I don't know, but it would be nice to have next to my Besson.

How can you afford all these tubas?

As far as I know, popes do not get their salaries paid in cash. They are fed, clad, housed, and transported, but they do not even get pocket money.

iiipopes wrote:BTW: what's the bore on this critter? I'm sure it can't be too large due to the increased mass of the double thickness rotors on 1 & 2, which would create more friction due to more surface area, and therefore risk being sluggish, for that reason as well as because of being twice the mass of a conventional rotor. This would be in contrast to a compensating piston valve, which due to the manner of construction, is not twice as long, but more like only 1/3 to 2/5 longer, and directly sprung rather than relying on linkage.

The height of a rotor is not supposed to slow it down but for the inertia induced by the added weight.

Rotors are not supposed to touch the wall of the casings. Ideally all contact between rotor and instrument body shall only happen in the bearings at either end. Plus with the crank of course.

Rotor valves can be made very fast, but the linkage has too many parts introducing each their own level of inertia. It also is almost impossible to make the wear of the two bearings reasonably synchronized.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:33 am

iiipopes wrote: Oh, yeah: the "+1" is a reference to those four valve compensating instruments, both tuba and euph, which have the 4th valve down for the left hand, away from the valve block. But on this tuba and my Besson, there are only three valves, not four, so there is no "+1."

Sorry, but in context, you're incorrect.

+1 or +some number is seen on forums such as this to express agreement or approval. Think of it as a game and the previous poster was just awarded points or something. I agreed with Scooby Tuba. He correctly identified the tuba. I concur with him. That's all.

It's often used on other forums which I read frequently....

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:52 am

Pardon my lack of knowledge of all of the cyber abbreviations.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:15 pm

cjk wrote:
iiipopes wrote:+1 or +some number is seen on forums such as this to express agreement or approval. Think of it as a game and the previous poster was just awarded points or something. I agreed with Scooby Tuba. He correctly identified the tuba. I concur with him. That's all.

Yes, but given the genre, shouldn't that be ++ or +=1?

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:14 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:
cjk wrote:
iiipopes wrote:+1 or +some number is seen on forums such as this to express agreement or approval. Think of it as a game and the previous poster was just awarded points or something. I agreed with Scooby Tuba. He correctly identified the tuba. I concur with him. That's all.
Yes, but given the genre, shouldn't that be ++ or +=1?

MAYBE 2 +- 1 ...