On HBS 293 (HB-6)

[tubacdk]

the HB-6 is a large 5/4 CC tuba, made for orchestral playing.  It's larger than a PT-6, though the bell flare is not as wide.  The bell has a very wide throat for its bell diameter (nearly swallows a large H&B straight mute).  It's a smaller instrument than the HB-50, but based on an entirely different concept of tuba design.  I would guess that playing them side-by-side, the HB-50 would put out a broad, room-filling sound while the HB-6 would put out a very big sound, but be more direct and punchy (not that it was a punchy horn, but in comparison to a 6/4 piston, it'd be more punchy). 

I played and HB-6 for years and was very happy with it.  It played very cleanly, projected easily and I loved the tone.  I only sold it because it was a valuable horn, wasn't quite earning its keep and we had a baby on the way.  I haven't spent much time on the HB-50 at all, so my comparison is mainly based on the experience I've had on 6/4 piston Yorkish horns.  Can't really say one horn would be particularly better than the other, just depends on what you want.  Not many of the HB-6s have been made, I think 15 or so (last I asked Herr Hirsbrunner).  I think they're only made when ordered, and I would expect as such that they'd be all handmade.  As far as custom specs, no idea.  You might ask the folks at Custom Music if you can't get an answer from Hirsbrunner directly.

-ck

[Lee Stofer]

Kenneth,
Comparing the Hirsbrunner HBS 293 to the HBS 510 is comparing an apple to an orange. The 293 is an Alexander-style instrument, whereas the 510 is a York-style instrument, if that gives you an idea of how different they are. And, let me assure you that each instrument has been carefully engineered to work best with the dimensions listed in their catalog. They may, or may not be willing to change the bell diameter a little. But, concerning the valve bore, I can tell you from having played two of them, the 20.5mm bore is plenty large, and that a 22mm valveset would probably wreck the intonation and response of the instrument. By "handmade on request", they mean that they only make one of these when it is specifically requested, so you will not see one in stock in the US unless Custom Music Company decides to request one be made. It is a large, specialty orchestra instrument that compares favorably with my Rudolf Meinl 5/4 CC. since they are only hand made, ie., with hand-hammered bows, they cost a ton to make, and you're not likely to see many of these in a lifetime.

[poomshanka]

Another large, Swiss rotary horn that *might* figure into a comparison is the rotary Willson 3050. Prolly less of those floating around than even the HB-6. Chuck's played mine, so perhaps he might have some thoughts?

...D

[Michael Woods]

Kenneth, don't know if you are going to be making it down to TBA , but I will be bringing Sumner Ericksons HB-6 with me to the convention.

You would be able to see the difference between it and other horns.

I'll be bring it down as a bench mark while I look for a new PT-6.

[jon112780]

I seem to remember a recent thread that mentioned the 5/4 Hirsbrunner CC can also be purchased with 4 pistons and a 5th rotar...

[tubacdk]

Another large, Swiss rotary horn that *might* figure into a comparison is the rotary Willson 3050. Prolly less of those floating around than even the HB-6. Chuck's played mine, so perhaps he might have some thoughts?

Dave's 3050R is a really great instrument, though it's kind of hard for me to think about the difference between the two... it was a while between the time when I sold my HB-6 and when I played Dave's tuba. I also think my ideas changed somewhat between those two times. But if you're considering dropping that much money into a large knot of brass tubing, I would definitely do what I could to play both the 3050R and the HB-6. Dave's Willson is a phenomenal tuba - it responds well throughout the registers, produces a very nice, full, clear sound, the intonation is good, only drawback is that you need to buy a forklift when you get it cuz the thing is HEAVY (Dave already had one: http://daveamason.com/forklift.jpg). That said, I'm sure that's part of what makes it sound as good as it does.

more thoughts when I chew on it some more.... see if I can access the "this tuba plays how?" portion of my brain over the weekend.

-ck

[Michael Woods]

The HB-6 and Willson 3050R are on COMPLETE opposite ends of the spectrum when comes to the sound that is produced.

Do not think by getting a Willson 3050R that you are coming close to the sound that the HB-6 produces.

PERIOD.

[Chen]

Another large, Swiss rotary horn that *might* figure into a comparison is the rotary Willson 3050. Prolly less of those floating around than even the HB-6. Chuck's played mine, so perhaps he might have some thoughts?

...D

I owned a Willson 3050RZ (the new Willson rotary CC) and I have played 2 HB-6 (aka HBS-293) in my life. I'd pick either HB-6 any day over the Willson. The huge, warm and dark sound, and great response just can't be matched by the Willson. But I'm indeed VERY biased, my dream horn is 1970s Hirsbrunner HB-2, I think it is the best in the universe.

edit:
My comments above should not be interpreted as talking the Willson down. It is a very good instrument; it is capable of producing a very nice , big, sound and the low range ROCKS. Plays consistently throughout the range. The intonation is solid as well. It is however very heavy and somewhat uncomfortable to play (for me, and the previous owner) due the one of the slide (4th?) getting in the way in the back of the tuba.

[poomshanka]

My comments above should not be interpreted as talking the Willson down. It is a very good instrument; it is capable of producing a very nice , big, sound and the low range ROCKS. Plays consistently throughout the range. The intonation is solid as well. It is however very heavy and somewhat uncomfortable to play (for me, and the previous owner) due the one of the slide (4th?) getting in the way in the back of the tuba.

Interesting to hear you point out the ergos. I have exactly the same problem with the back wrap on mine. I also felt the valve paddles were too high relative to the leadpipe, and had them moved.

As to my *potential* HB-6/3050RS comparison, I had no basis for making that connection other than a "general curiosity" as to the similarities. What?!? Not all large, silver, rotary Swiss tubas play the same? The Hell you say!!



...Dave