Mini disc or DAT?

[jon112780]

What's a good mini disc player that low brass players use to record themselves (in the practice room or in a larger hall)? What's an expected price for a good quality item such as this?

Is a DAT, though more expensive worth the extra $$$?

I've been considering getting one or the other, but I have almost no experience in electronics, but was wondering what others were using, and how 'good' or 'helpful' they were found to be.

All input is appreciated!

[tubagirl5]

Adam Fry has one of those protable DAT's for sale over in the for sale section...seems to be a good price. You should look into that!

[rwiegand]

Mini-disk is a dying format, soon to join the 8-track tapes. It's already the case that you have to go to mail order or a specialty dealer to get disks.

DAT, as has been noted, will probably continue to be with us (though models are being discontinued and there are few if any new introductions), but good portable DATs are expensive, and you need to plan ahead for media (no DAT tapes at the Walgreens last I looked).

Solid state recorders that go directly to WAV or MP3 files stored on compact flash or SD seem to be the way to go. They're tiny, easy to use, and the one I'm most familiar with (Edirol r09) has really good sound quality.

the r09 is a little more expensive than a good minidisc, but the internal mics are surprisingly good, so if you don't already have a microphone that's an expense that can be avoided.

[bberlien]

Minidisc, DAT, and MP3 are very different formats.

Having used all three to record, the DAT is clearly the best sounding recording format. Minidisc is a step down (though more convenient), while MP3 is not really acceptable for recording.

DAT records from 20 Hz to 20 kHz using PCM encoding (standard red-book CD format). Some recorders allow you to choose the sampling rate (44.1K or 48K). With a good mic, you'll end up with a great recording that captures accurate color and articualtion.

Minidisc is a unique format developed by Sony. Before the advent of DVD, Sony figured the best way to get a full CD of music on a "mini" disc was to get rid of more than half the information. Minidisc functions (like DAT) in PCM coding, but only records those sounds from 60 Hz (not even the lowest note on a piano) to 10 kHz (around a high-G on a piccolo). Of the information recorded, the Minidisc recorder ASSUMES the what the most important sounds are then discards HALF the information. To the minidisc, attacks are most important (a la pop music), hence when you record an orchestra, the percussion is always FAR louder on the recording than in real life.

Minidisc sounds enough like the real thing because it works like your cellphone. You can tell what is being said, but it never sounds quite like the actual person on the other end. Since you know who is speaking to you on the phone (most of the time), your brain fills in the rest. Minidisc ASSUMES your brain will fill in the rest.

MP3 is much worse than minidisc. It does not record in PCM (but in MP3 or other compressed formats) and discards massive amounts of information as it is a "lossy" compression scheme (i.e. jpeg vs. tiff). For a test, listen to any Beattles song on your iPod and try to determine which Beattle is singing lead. Good luck. Listening to a record or even CD, you can tell immediately, but with any iTunes /MP3 format it becomes more difficult. Same thing happens to your tuba recording.

If you want the convenience of Minidisc, but sound close to a DAT, buy an I-River and set it to record in 16-bit PCM (the largest file possible).

[Bandmaster]

If you want the convenience of Minidisc, but sound close to a DAT, buy an I-River and set it to record in 16-bit PCM (the largest file possible).

Which model I-River are you referring to, the T30? It is the only one that I can find that says it records using a line-in connection. But the manual only lists quality settings of Low, Medium and High. So which model are you talking about?

[Yane]

Iriver used to make the H1XX and H3XX hard drive recorders with good line in capability, made even better with open source firmware enhancements http://www.rockbox.org/. Sadly these are only available now as refurbished units. They also made flash recorders that had decent recordning capability: the IFP-7XX had line in, the ability to power microphones and recorded MP3s at bitrates selectable to the maximum possible (320kbps); of course that model has been dropped too and is hard to find save as a refurbished unit at Iriver's outlet store https://secure7.nexternal.com/shared/St ... =682044625. The IFP-8xx had line-in but no microphone preamp like the T series. I think the "high" quality record setting is more like "adequate" at 128kbps.

The Edirol is a probably the best choice currently commonly available -- and you CAN get a compactflash card at CVS (albeit at a usurious price). Minidisc and DAT are dying formats.

If you already have a laptop you could add an audio interface.

[Yane]

Some cool stuff out there, just get out the checkbook....

//www.edirol.com/products/r4/index.html

http://www.sounddevices.com/products/744t.htm

For the price of that, I think I'd rather slap this on the laptop:

http://www.presonus.com/firepod.html

[tubatooter1940]

My partner has two dat tape machines and gave me one. I made a C.D. with mine and a friend who is handy with a computer made it into a pretty decent C.D..

[Chuck(G)]

I've used DAT for a long time; I even have a Sony DAT portable. It's fine for recording, but it's a dated format. 4mm tapes are still not hard to come by, since there's still a bit of a legacy market in DAT computer drives.

Minidisc is somewhat dated, it comes from a time when a small recordable disc was a good compromise between tape and full-blown CD. But it's on its way out, too.

Nowadays, if I were out shopping, I'd look for a good hard disk-based recorder that will do non-compressed audio at 2x and 4x CD sampling rates. CD is also a dated format and it's probably best to have something that makes some sort of provision for the future 44KHz sampling ain't state of the art any more.

If you anticipate duing multi-mic recordings (as in an ensemble), then a recorder with multiple-track capability is very nice to have, so you can do your mixing after the recording session.

I don't know if I'd go for a notebook PC to do my audio, unless I was very sure about the quality of the A/D converter. One problem with PC-based setups is that they tend to pick up stray electronic noise from the internals of the PC itself.

[Steve Inman]

Mini-disk is a dying format, soon to join the 8-track tapes. It's already the case that you have to go to mail order or a specialty dealer to get disks.

... uh ... anybody want to buy a mini-disk recorder ... ?



Cheers,

[MaryAnn]

I recently bought a Sharp MD recorder for $50 on ebay. (I lost the other one in the divorce a few years ago.) I'm completely happy with its recording qualities for on-the-go recording. There is even a track on a CD that I'm on, that was recorded in my living room on the MD. The quality is equivalent to the hard-disk recording that was done in the studio. No, it wasn't a high-level pro studio, but it was basically ok.

Sharp MDs, BTW, are better than SONY MDs. On the Sonys, you can't change the record volume during recording, while on the Sharps you can.

MA

[Anterux]

Since I have Edirol R-09 I never use MD anymore.

Excelent quality! More portable then anything. No wires because buil in mics are great. No noise of mecanical moving parts. Transfer to PC without SONYSHITS. (sorry for this one, but it pisses me off!!! If I record MY music with a MD why cant I transfer it fast to the PC??? Sony is ridiculous in this matter!!!)

My 2 cents:

Edirol R-09.

[Steve Inman]

Steve,

Whatcha got?

Doc

It appears to be a little Sony Walkman:

MD Walkman MZ-N707 type-R MDLP

Bought it from a friend thinking I might use it, but never have. I need to look around and find the manual, which I'm sure that I have ... somewhere. Paid $75 for it. Came with "wall-wart" power supply and mini-stand/charger, USB cable, and one disk.

Would happily part company with it for a fair price -- "ebay average price" would be fine -- if we can find a couple matches based on similiar accessories....

RSVP via PM if interested.

[Steve Inman]

Payday is soon.

Does it have ... (snip)

Doc

Check your email!


Cheers,

[Slamson]

got laptop?

then the cheapest, easiest thing to buy is the Griffin iMic ($35). it's a pc interface that gives you line or mic input via the USB port on your computer. Comes with "Final Vinyl" software for basic, 2-track stereo recordings, or you can use whatever application you'd like. I use one (on a Mac, but they work with pcs, too) and run a mixer into it and make fine recordings. It's not on a par with a protools or motu interface, but for $35, it's still better than a minidisc, all but the most expensive DATs, and some flash recorders.

[prototypedenNIS]

Mini-disk is a dying format, soon to join the 8-track tapes. It's already the case that you have to go to mail order or a specialty dealer to get disks.

Good news, you can get a MD player with multiple discs on ebay for 30$.

the sound quality is still excellent, the battery life is decent... not many reasons to go against it.

[sloan]

I recently bought a Sharp MD recorder for $50 on ebay. (I lost the other one in the divorce a few years ago.) I'm completely happy with its recording qualities for on-the-go recording. There is even a track on a CD that I'm on, that was recorded in my living room on the MD. The quality is equivalent to the hard-disk recording that was done in the studio. No, it wasn't a high-level pro studio, but it was basically ok.

Sharp MDs, BTW, are better than SONY MDs. On the Sonys, you can't change the record volume during recording, while on the Sharps you can.

MA

yes - that's why I like my Sharp...but....be aware that changing levels causes a noticeable blip in the recording.

I have a feeling that my mini-disc may travel to Tuscaloosa with the latest recruit for the Million Dollar Band. If I were to replace it with a solid-state recorder capable of digital uploading...what would you recommend? it's been several years since I looked at this market - what has changed?

[sloan]

Any comments on the Marantz pmd660?

[Slamson]

I have one, and it's really convenient! The built-in mics are pretty good for built-ins, but there are some problems with the unit that might affect your decision to purchase it.

NIMH batteries don't last nearly as long as they are supposed to in the unit. Record time (using condenser mics) is less than an hour (and i tried several groups of NIMHs). Then again, how often do you plan on recording far away from an AC outlet?

The mic preamps are kind of noisy. Not so noisy as to make your recording sound like a cassette, but loud enough to be heard when recording soft signals (please - no cracks about tuba players never playing pp!)

The mic preamps distort BADLY when using really low-impedance microphones. Since most really low-impedance mics come with a -10db pad, this isn't a "deal-breaker" for a portable unit, but I have to pad my KSM44s, KM84s, etc. It wouldn't be a problem with less sensitive mics, and probably no problem at all with dynamic ones.

Of course if you use it with a mixer, the mic problems are moot. I use it using the line input (which is a lot cleaner) as a second backup (hard disk, dat, then the PMD660) in live recording. It's really easy to transfer the files to ProTools or whatever software you might use, and let's not forget that for all it does, it's pretty cheap, too.

[Yane]

If you need more performance from the Marantz PMD 660, you can "Pimp my PMD"

http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/h ... 0MODS.html

Also, if you need to do a critical recording away from an AC outlet, try Lithium batteries for maximum run time, though for the price an extension cord might not look so bad after all....