I Don't Get It!

[windshieldbug]

Obviously he has no regular gigs, or they could conflict with the orchestra. I can only imagine, then, that he isn't playing much, if at all, and misses performing. Perhaps being a Kwki-Mart manager doesn't cut it for him any more. It doesn't sound like after 22 years he needs orchestral experience. Then again, you don't know how well he sounds to begin with.

Then again, he may be like myself, and is trying to regain some semblence of playing after some life-altering experience like surviving a car crash, a coma, and cereberal hemmorages. I am grateful to the community band that puts up with me now.

Auditions are always a crap-shoot; you never know if someone else will have the day of their lives, or if someone you think is over-qualified will be showing up. If its any consolation, it works the same way in the pro world, too.

You take a breath, and go on...

[Chuck(G)]

Well, he's obviously not making his living playing tuba now, so how can you call him a "pro"?

I understand that Gene Pokorny plays (or used to play--my mind is dated) clarinet in a Chicago-area community band. Just because someone makes or made a living playing doesn't mean that he or she's not entitled to experience some joy from playing.

Best to get over it and move on, no?

[bort]

If there is NO preservation of truly amatuer positions, what are we (the amatuers) suppose do? Draw 100% satisfaction from playing for family and pets?

Now, I'm not saying that this particular civic SO is required to only select non-professional musicians, but, thank God that there are organizations committed to this principle. At the end of the day, we all need someplace to play!

Tuck

Sounds like you have more of a beef with the director/audition committee than the fellow who auditioned.

With that being said though, I'm sure I'd be annoyed if I were you as well. Who knows though...maybe this new tuba player won't stay all that long? Also, are you the first-call substitute now? (Has the director approached that subject?) It may not be a steady playing position, but it's exciting to get that call once in a while!

[Barney]

Tuck,

What if you are called to play a paying job next week? Are you going to refuse, just to keep your amateur status? I'm just trying to illustrate that there is a lot of grey area here.

For the record, I'm a "professional" musician. I make my entire living performing. But I occasionally play for free if it is for a good cause, or if it's with people I enjoy playing with. I don't find anything wrong with that, nor should you (as an amateur) find any problem with accepting money to play at someone else's church next Easter.

I think the key is that this other tuba player, being a "professional" musician, is first and foremost a MUSICIAN. And as a musician, he is taking every opportunity he can to perform. That's what he should be doing, and that's what, wisely, you are doing as well.

There aren't many playing opportunities out there. Be thankful for what you have, don't sweat what you don't have, and keep working at it.

[Barney]

I think I'd probably feel most at home in that Town Band from the old Andy Griffith show.

Even THAT band used professionals, but it all worked out fine.

[MikeMason]

he's most likely paid a much higher price than you and therefore has the right to any gig he wants and can win.I seem to remember you are a very recent returnee to playing.There are MANY tubists who would love the orchestra you do have. I have paid a pretty steep price and feel no guilt in getting the call for almost every gig in my area.I only make a fairly small percentage of my living playing,but i really enjoy the high quality playing opportunities i get.Keep practicing and improving and better opportunities will come...

[tofu]

Tuck,

I think I understand where you are coming from. It's like an NFL linebacker who doesn't make the cut and to try to keep in shape joins the local semi-pro team to either get another shot at the big time or to just to stay in the game. While he is way better than the local yocals it is still a team game just like a band.

Lets face it - there are too few pro tuba jobs and the colleges just keep cranking out more and more wannabe pros. I think this is probably true for all instruments. I think we will see more and more of this drift down as pro level jobs continue to contract and the number of performance grads continues to increase.

I've seen it in my Municipal Band (which does pay us) over the last 20 years. At first the group was made up of a mixture of band directors and strictly amateur musicians. Today it is made up of a high degree of folks who once played in regional orchestras that went kaput or they got cut, ex military band folks including 3 or 4 who played in the DC marine and navy bands and band directors who played well and a few amateurs like myself.

The good news is it really pushes folks like me to get better and the group sounds multiple levels better than 20 years ago. The bad news is it loses a lot of that "community" feel if you know what I mean. It's no longer that turn of the century farmers and townsfolk getting together at the end of the day to play a few songs and hoist a few beers. It use to be we played to have fun and now we are all business. If a concert is not up to some standard the director really berates the band.

One last thought if this guy really bugs you - it might behoove you to contact Tonya Harding and her band of henchmen like ex-husband Jeff Gillooly and have them kneecap the guy before the first concert and then you can come in to save the day!

[Donn]

So what about amateurs that take money?

I play in bands that do this. A wedding or party here and there, not much money in it. I hate to think we might be driving the prices down for professional musicians in the same "interesting and different" niche, but it does seem like a possibility.

[iiipopes]

Wasn't there a song off the Eagles "Reunion" Live CD a couple of years ago that would be on point?

[Steve Marcus]

My friend, who is also a professional musician, will be playing in my largely 'amateur' (with the 'professionals' being the band directors) brass band with me this year. I personally am VERY THANKFUL to have such an accomplished, talented player to sit next to. I don't know why he decided to play in the band since he won't get PAID (apparently professionals only play when paid now?), but I guess he loves to play, and I'm not about to complain that I won't be the best player in the section.

The reason that your friend has joined your brass band now could be that NABBA (North American Brass Band Association) just changed the rules. Professionals can now be full members of competing brass bands. The old rule stated that a band member could earn no more than 75% of his/her income from performing, which was somewhat of a farce. As you well know, tuba parts in brass band music can be very challenging and satisfying, thus an attractive activity for one who is paid to play in other ensembles.

So does this mean that when Carol played with her U of M tuba quartet at ITEC, she was "dropping down"...?

My guess is that Carol was simply honoring a commitment that she made to her fellow U of M students, friends, and musicians prior to winning the Philly position. One of the members of Carol's quartet or Carol herself could confirm this.

[Alex C]

Dallas is teeming with good players. There are even more than enough excellent players floating around there.

True! I haven't ever seen so many tubist gravitate to one place. I thought Chicago was over-tuba populated when I was at Northwestern but Dallas has a much higher per capita population of tubist.

That's why the guy you referred to is playing in the UNT orchestra. Chances of him playing anywhere else in Dallas his first year are small. It takes a while to break in. I'm sure it's frustrating to newcomers here.

Just be thankful you aren't a euphonium player in the DFW area!

[Alex C]

I must agree with Barney and Mike.

I'm a fence-sitter when it comes to this stuff. I'm called a "hobbyist" because I'm in law school, but I've also been told that since I have a Master's in performance, I should "step back and let the 'kids' have a chance."

Simply put, I am not currently in music school. I have a Master's, but I don't play for a living. I am not a professional by financial status. Whatever. If I show up to play in a group that consists of largely amateurs with no music degrees, and there are 4 seats and 5 'hobbyists', students, or other incumbents fighting for the job, I am not about to just walk away because I have a higher level of training. As previously stated, a professional (or a professional "wannabe" as in my case) will play in every situation possible... soon those gigs that make a bystander say "why would a person with music degrees want THAT job?!" becomes as sacred as any other gig.

The supply of players far exceeds the demand, and someone suffers. I think it's about survival of the fittest. I think especially with the level of talent rising and the number of students pursuing music, we're going to have a lot more disappointed musicians in the future. To put it rather harshly, there will never, ever be enough gigs for all the people hoping to get one, and that includes, playing, teaching, whatever. I am one of those who "settled", but it's a means to allow me to have more of an opportunity. Not to be too mean, but there are going to be a lot of classically trained tuba players in the future who will be, like I am, open to and looking for any gigs available.

I digress... My friend, who is also a professional musician, will be playing in my largely 'amateur' (with the 'professionals' being the band directors) brass band with me this year. I personally am VERY THANKFUL to have such an accomplished, talented player to sit next to. I don't know why he decided to play in the band since he won't get PAID (apparently professionals only play when paid now?), but I guess he loves to play, and I'm not about to complain that I won't be the best player in the section. I know the experience will only supplement my learning. I wish more professionals would be open to non-paying situations; I think all of us who are the 'amateurs' would gain much. I realize this same experience isn't about to happen in an orchestra where there is no "section" per se, but isn't the business of music to make 'art' and not to feel contempt towards colleagues? That said...

Having dabbled recently in some music business, I am only realizing now that the problem in the industry is that everyone is losing sight of the fact that music is a creative ART; it's becoming so self-centered and catty that consumers and performers alike are forgetting what the true purposes of music are. Music isn't about enjoyment or beauty anymore, it's all become competition, jealousy, a source of bragging rights... I hope this doesn't happen in the classical world as prominently as it seems to have in the mainstream scene.

The notion that a professional "drops down" to take a gig that doesn't pay makes me wonder what the world is coming to. Is that to say that if Lance Armstrong does a charity ride with a bunch of biking enthusiasts then he's a poser? I know it's different.... but still. It seems like a statement made out of resentment, and perhaps out of frustration that the person uttering it doesn't have more work him/herself... Maybe? So does this mean that when Carol played with her U of M tuba quartet at ITEC, she was "dropping down"...? Anyone follow this logic?

To conclude, since I seem to have diverged, I'd like to have more gigs too, but unfortunately, it's not so much a possibility because I'm not a full-time musician. I just think it's all about paying dues. Anyone who hangs in there, for the right reasons, will eventually get a turn. May the best player win, and not be judged. We are a "community" of tuba players, and a community needs a wide variety of citizens to make it productive. We share a great rapport amongst each other for the most part (as compared to players of some other instruments), and I just hope that it stays that way.

I'm done.

Once you get your law degree you will write more and say less but get paid a lot to do it!

See, life ain't fair.

[chipster55]

Tuck,

You're always welcome at Southlake & you can sit anywhere you want among us tubas

[Rick Denney]

Let's face it, there are very few orchestras out there for tuba players who do not have pro-level skills. Even amateur orchestras will attract the guy with the master's in performance who ended up doing something else for his daily bread.

This will be the case as long as music schools are turning out 15,682% of the needed professional tuba players.

Those of us who play tuba but never trained professionally to do so just have to take our opportunities when we get them. I was able to play in an orchestra for a period of time, and I cherish the memory. I know it's unlikely to ever happen again. There just aren't enough bad string players to consume all the good tuba players to get down to my level.

I didn't even respond when the local "amateur" orchestra advertised for a tuba player. Quite simply, they hire their brass musicians, so that the string players get to play harder stuff. I cannot compete with the large pool of local pros, many of whom are moonlighting from high-end military band gigs. Most orchestras exist by and for the string players.

And, truth to tell, they would be disappointed in me after having enjoyed such good players in the past. Who needs that?

By the way, Tuck, the orchestras in your area have gotten tougher. When I lived there, I regularly subbed in the Irving Youth Orchestra (though there were no "youth" that I saw) and was first alternate in the Mesquite Symphony. Both of those gigs get MUCH better players now.

So, I play in a band that performs a lot of orchestral transcriptions.

I think you'll find the Metropolitan Winds challenging enough. Randy Bass (assuming he's still there) is a superb conductor, and his arrangements are as good as it gets. I was invited to play there when Randy first formed the group but business travel demands at the time prevented it.

Rick "who played in the Town North Concert Band at the time" Denney

[tofu]

-

[WoodSheddin]

You lost an audition. It will happen again.