Playing solo with BAT

[Wyvern]

A number of people have said a BAT is not really suitable for solo use, but I wonder if anyone has successfully played a solo (particularly with band) using a BAT (e.g. 6/4 CC, or BBb).

In which case, what work did you play?

I have always in the past used an EEb for solos, but wonder about playing one using my big Neptune for a change.

Thanks.

[TonyZ]

Isn't the RVW written for a BASS tuba?

Ken F.

Yes, but I once (in younger days) played Movement 1 on a big BBb tuba. Granted, a smaller tuba is easier, but I think any instrument can be used to solo. It's all the same notes, just a bigger horn.

[Wyvern]

I have played the RVW on my EEb. What I was thinking is solos more suitable for a big tuba.

[brianf]

There was once a tubist who, in 1966, did the Vaughn Williams concerto with the Chicago Symphony on a York tuba. It can be done!

[Steve Inman]

Sorry -- I can't answer your question directly. However, indirectly ....

Several years ago I attended an evening of tuba and euph playing at a local university's "TubaMania" conceret (their rendition of "Octubafest(R)" as that name was already taken). Several well-prepared contrabass tuba solos were played, on everything from a MW2145 to some 6/4 behemoth. As I listened to them I picked out the player/instrument combination that sounded best to my ears, based mainly on the sound quality of the horn. I assumed from a distance that it was a 5/4 rotary CC. It turned out to be a Miraphone 186-5U -- standard 4/4 CC. There were probably some bass tubas and euphs also featured -- I don't remember.

From previous exposure, I know a well-played rotary F tuba is what my ears most prefer to hear. (Before you say it, I'm sure a rotay Eb would also be fine....) I'm sure it's the shape of the bell flare and not the valves that's the important part, btw.

I've listened to a few CDs full of contrabass solos and a few CDs full of bass tuba solos. My ears much prefer the sound of the bass tuba as a solo instrument. I believe THAT'S why bass tuba is claimed as "preferable". It's surely not due to the stronger low range of the horn! I just think a standard audience doesn't want to listen to a lot of low notes. And the upper register of a contrabass isn't nearly as satisfying to hear as a bass tuba, to my ears. But if you're not going above the staff with your contrabass, then it should work, I would think. But I'd suggest that the sound quality of a 4/4 horn might be preferred by the standard audience member.

Cheers,

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I agree with Steve. I believe that average listeners prefer clarity, rather than breadth of tone, from a solo tubist (That is, IF they have any opinion, at all! ).

[Tom Holtz]

(*sigh...*)

I'll be another stick in the mud. Sure, you can do a solo on a BAT with a band. Given the opportunity to do a solo, I would highly recommend the small horn, should one be available to you. Yeah, my personal preferences play into this. Not only do I prefer playing solos on the small horn, I (on board w/ Inman) prefer *listening* to solos on the small horn.

Any feelings of acheivement I would get by executing a great solo on the BAT would be mitigated by the realization that such efforts are totally lost on the majority of audience members who aren't tuba players. To the masses, any tuba is a BAT. If they're inclined to be impressed at all, they'll be impressed with a solo on anything larger than a trumpet, and astounded that the tuba can do anything past oom-pah-pah. Obviously, YMMV, but for lil' ol' me, the world of stress getting a solo up and running on the big horn just isn't worth it, even if I knew there'd be a few colleagues in attendance who could fully appreciate the performance.

And now, the band-specific stuff. If you want to do a solo on a BAT, seriously, I'd stick to piano or strings for accompaniment. BATs are built to blend, fit in, and be part of the group. It's hard enough getting a clear, soloistic tone and a clean, articluate performance on a BAT. Having an accompaniment with one or more BATs, a euph or two, and a stack of saxophones muddying up the sound makes your job nearly impossible.

When we accompany a soloist on a concert, we cut everything down to 1-on-a-part, except maybe clarinets. When it's a euph or tuba solo, and I'm playing backup... *ugh*. I have to cover the part, but stay the hell out of the soloists' way. J-Crad just played the Barat "Introduction & Dance" a few weeks ago, (played the piss out of it) and I would have paid cash to get a bass player to cover my part instead of having me chunking away back there. It's not ideal. I've arranged band accompaniments for solos, and when it's a tuba up front, I've found that when writing for the brass sections, the word "TACET" works very well. If you're going to do a BAT solo with a band, make sure you have the director's ear about keeping the accompaniment in check.

I know, I know, it's blasphemy to not back the big horns. I know Zerkel is gonna come find me, and he's bringing an ***-whuppin' with him. I still say you're asking for a lot of work with minimal reward. NTTAWTT

[Z-Tuba Dude]

While it is true that audiences will probably react to, and EXPECT us to play low notes, I think that we have our best chances of being taken as serious musicians, by not relying on a "circus sideshow" approach.

I think that it is fine, that we can't play as high as trumpets, or violins. If you look at the case of the French horn, it sounds great playing solos, and it's range is sort of in the middle of the ensemble (and their tone quality is very similar to ours!).

It is unfortunate that it takes our high register, to just get into the range of a baritone vocalist, but I think that from a soloistic point of veiw, audiences' ears are geared toward the human voice, as a model.

[brattom]

I wonder if anyone has successfully played a solo (particularly with band) using a BAT

Gene Pokorny played the Gerald Finzi Five Bagatelles at the Army Band Conference Grand Concert a few years ago. You can listen to it here:

http://www.usarmyband.com/Broadcast/200 ... t_two.html

It is about 27 minutes into the second half.

He used "the" BAT. From where I was sitting, it was pretty awesome. For some reason, my laptop speakers don't sound the same!

Unfortunately our agreement with Soldiers Radio prevents us from allowing a scroll bar with the broadcast archives (copyright issues), but there is a way if you know basic html (use the source...).

Tom

[circusboy]

I think most of you are wrong. High on a tuba is strictly midrange for the human ear. I believe that most audiences - it they are comprized of anything other than tuba players are most interested in really low notes.

While you may pull off playing something really high, that isn't really recognized as exceptional by the audience - they don't know how hard that is. However, if you really want to blow their socks off - honk out a couple of pedal tones - this will really get thier attention.

I couldn't agree more, Harold. And I think it's a mistake that too many composers for tuba have made, putting it all up in the high range where it sounds like a trombone or euph--but maybe not as good. I think Kraft's "Encounters II" might be a good counter-example or maybe the Hindemith. In those pieces we get to hear a tuba sound like a real tuba.

Tubists without a sense of humor are in for a long, lonely life IMHO. When have you ever told anyone that you play the tuba, and it failed to elicit a smile. The word itself is funny, for cryin' out loud! You may as well embrace this side of what you do. It won't make you--or have you taken as--any less serious a musician, so long as you continue to take your art seriously. It doesn't mean you need to wear a funny hat or ride a unicycle while you're playing. I'm just saying that part of embracing the tubist within requires the understanding that there's a silly side to this giant hunk of metal that puts out some big, low sounds.

[Mark]

Here is the best answer to your question: http://dzerkel.myweb.uga.edu/resources/ ... abass.html.

[TexTuba]

While it is true that audiences will probably react to, and EXPECT us to play low notes, I think that we have our best chances of being taken as serious musicians, by not relying on a "circus sideshow" approach.

It is unfortunate that it takes our high register, to just get into the range of a baritone vocalist...

I don't really understand why everyone wants to be taken as "serious musicians." Let's face it, only musicians take other musicians seriously and even then that's not always the case! If you want an audience, you will end up playing some of those "sideshow" pieces. For band, you can't go wrong with a cheesy theme and variations piece. They're fun and the crowd generally likes them. I, for one, would not go off playing the Hindemith or Kraft for an audience that was generally comprised of non-musicians. Bottom line: play to your audience. Otherwise you'll have no audience. And there is nothing unfortunate about the way our register is set up. It is what it is and that's all that it is. (Sorry for the spin on Popeye )

Ralph

[windshieldbug]

My view is that REGARDLESS of range and REGARDLESS of seriousness, as a soloist one needs to be able to have distinctive articulation, simple as that.

If one can do it on a 7/4 Pluto, do it. If one can't do it on a 2/4 C baritone, you have no business out in front!

[David Zerkel]

(*sigh...*)
I know, I know, it's blasphemy to not back the big horns. I know Zerkel is gonna come find me, and he's bringing an ***-whuppin' with him.

Ha! Me kick the *** of an United States Gy-rene?! Ha!

I think everyone and their dog knows that I am a fan of playing the big tuba soloistically. Remember, I did so out of neccessity because I didn't play F tuba until I was about 30 years old... so for me, there was only one tuba to play, but still all of those solos! I'm all cool with the idea that many solos sound better on the F or Eb (beacuse they do!), but I wholeheartedly reject the idea any developing player should "save his/herself" from the more demanding solo literature becuase of the equipment they do or do not have. Go for it! And along the way, you'll learn something about finesse on the big horn that the haters probably never will.

Don't get me wrong, Tommy, I love me some F tuba! In fact, my upcoming flurry of recitals is all on F. However, I have written a grant to make another CD and this one will be entirely on the PT-6, playing solos that the typical high-school student/ college freshman will likely study (on their BBb or CC tuba) I probably won't change any minds about the big tuba, but at least when you and I are gumming our tapioca in the Old Soldier's Home, we'll vaguely remember what that inflexible hunk of metal sounded like!

Regarding

I still say you're asking for a lot of work with minimal reward.

It's only hard work if you make it hard work!! Sounds like it's time to visit Obi Wan Fedderlykenobi

Dave "who is not as dug in on this position as some people might think I am" Zerkel

[Z-Tuba Dude]

We probably need to clarify our musical genres.....my impression was that we were dealing with "classical" music situations, based on the context of the original poster's question. Perhaps that was an erroneous assumption! Certainly, there are different expectations in the different styles of music that we play. There are some styles of music, where the "entertainment value" is more emphasized, than it is in "classical" music.

I would like to bring up an aspect of this issue of tuba players being perceived as "serious" musicians, that we have not touched upon.....that is the music that we have available for us to play: 60 years ago, printed tuba literature consisted primarily of theme & variation pieces, and novelty numbers (the Hindemith was just written in 1955). While there is absolutely nothing wrong with those kinds of pieces, I, personally, would feel that my musical experiences were limited, if those were the only kinds of pieces that I had to play.

Over the past fifty years, Harvey Phillips, through his own artistry, and personal commitment, has influenced several generations of composers, either directly, or indirectly, to write new music for the tuba. Not all of that music is great, but some of it is very good.

Here is my question: Do you think that a given composer is likely to put his best effort into writing a new piece of music, if he is not convinced that the performer is "serious" about what he does? I, for one, don't think so. I realize that I am only talking only about perceptions here, but we all know how powerful they can be.

Foot Note: Here is a story that was told to me, about Harvey Phillips, by a student of his. Harvey, known as a guy who is "serious" about the tuba, and tuba playing, was chided by a professional colleague for taking the tuba too seriously, to which he replied "Of course I take the tuba seriously! It is through the tuba that I can pay for my house, and feed my family!" (*this is a paraphrase, as I heard the story more than 25 years ago).

[TubaRay]

Over the past fifty years, Harvey Phillips, through his own artistry, and personal commitment, has influenced several generations of composers, either directly, or indirectly, to write new music for the tuba. Not all of that music is great, but some of it is very good.

Perhaps Harvey might have had a little help with this accomplishment. Don't you think? There's no doubt he deserves some credit for what he has done for our instrument, but I'm sure he would agree that he is not solely responsible for all the new music.

[TubaRay]

Foot Note: Here is a story that was told to me, about Harvey Phillips, by a student of his. Harvey, known as a guy who is "serious" about the tuba, and tuba playing, was chided by a professional colleague for taking the tuba too seriously, to which he replied "Of course I take the tuba seriously! It is through the tuba that I can pay for my house, and feed my family!" (*this is a paraphrase, as I heard the story more than 25 years ago).

This footnote, and others of similar size, are obviously not intended to be read by anyone over 40 yrs. of age.

[windshieldbug]

WHAT?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Perhaps Harvey might have had a little help with this accomplishment. Don't you think? There's no doubt he deserves some credit for what he has done for our instrument, but I'm sure he would agree that he is not solely responsible for all the new music.

Yes, of course. But I only mentioned Harvey's name, because I believe that he was on the forefront of commissioning compositions, and it would have only served to muddy my point, to list all of those dedicated ("serious" ) tubists that influenced composers.

[chipster55]

Shoot, I wish I could play solos on a BAT. But I have to play 'em on a 3/4 Bb 'cause that's the only horn I have. Granted, I play mostly band & church music, but the solos I've played have gone well so far. Besides, who can tell the difference at an outdoor concert?