Quintet horn?

[Lew]

I'm about to try using a jupiter 482.Don't laugh...I'll let you know.Pretty suprising little horn i found it the attic of our store.4 stainless steel piston BBb and it's a player.I like the idea of only having to keep up with 2 sets of fingerings,since my big horn is a BBb also.

I play in a band with someone who recently bought one of these. He is a former band director and plays different instruments in different groups, primarily clarinet. This is his only tuba. I was surprised at the sound and playability of this horn. I think that it would be a great choice for a small BBb tuba, especially for the price.

[ASTuba]

I believe any of the suggestions mentioned so far have been sufficient: small BBb, CC, medium-big Eb, big F.

One of the best quintets I've heard, Center City Brass Quintet uses a CC as well. Listent to any of their records. I was especially blown away by the Bozza. Craig Knox got some of the most crispieset notes I've ever heard on a CC.


ALso just consider, would you play string bass in a string quartet instead of a cello? No, so don't use one of them 5/4 or 6/4 tubas in a quintet either.

Early Center City Recordings were done on a PT-6, a large 5/4 tuba... Dismisses this post completely.

Just play what you got, F, CC, Eb, BBb, it doesn't matter, as long as it sounds good, and the quintet feels the same way.

[Wyvern]

....ALso just consider, would you play string bass in a string quartet instead of a cello? No, so don't use one of them 5/4 or 6/4 tubas in a quintet either.

While I don't disagree with your conclusion, I question your analogy:

.................cello --------------> string bass
................................. =
3/4-4/4 tuba --------------> 5/4-6/4 tuba

The size thing may be analogous, but a string bass sounds one octave lower than the cello, making it a totally inappropriate choice as a cello substitute in a string quartet.

Really a string bass substituting for a cello is like a BBb tuba substituting for a euphonium considering the octave difference.

[W]

Did you all know that a string bass can play in unison, same concert pitch as the cello? Wow, never would've thought of that. And when it does it sounds more "tubby", hence my point. The smaller, more compact horn is more appropriate in a chamber situation. Doesn't mean Warren Deck didn't play well with his MW2165 at his brass quintet concert, it just wasn't the most ideal instrument in a chamber setting.

Also, the bass is not an octave lower than the cello. It's down a minor 6th (unless you're talking about the one with extention or 5 strings). And the m6 is closer to the difference between a BBb and F tuba (a perfect 5th), rather than a BBb tuba and a euphonium. Besides, that analogy was more about the quality of sound, not the range. Get the net, tuba player.


@Andy, PT-6? If you go on their website, you'll see it's not what you thought. It's either the PT-3 or an older PT-4. Unless he used a PT-6 in the recording & used the PT-3 or PT-4 in his pictures. ANd I'm pretty sure he used the Cerveny "piggy" model on their "Quintets" album. Go check it.

[Richard Murrow]

While a survey of this type is interesting, I think it can be somewhat misleading. My guess is that the majority of those who have responded and the majority of members on this list are from the U.S.. That would likely cause the results to lean more toward CC & F tubas. I realize that there are some U.S. players who would use a BBb or EEb tuba, but the majority of serious players and those playing chamber music in the U.S. are CC or F players. What would the results be if this were asked of British, German, or French players for example. I think we would then see completely different results. My guess is that we would see a much larger percentage of F and EEb tubas. I know that there are some European players on the list, but the majority of players here are still from the U.S..

I have used BBb, CC, F and EEb tubas of all different sizes and configurations at different times in quintets and I have say that I understand the loyalty of our British friends to the EEb tuba. It is capable of weight when needed, lightness when called upon, clarity of articulation, and great flexibility and the low register is much more user friendly than the F tuba. Any tuba can work if the player is a good musician, but I find that after over 35 years of brass quintet playing the EEb makes my quintet life much easier.

[Chuck(G)]

Also, the bass is not an octave lower than the cello. It's down a minor 6th (unless you're talking about the one with extention or 5 strings).

Well yes, but in defense of those who made the original statement, the bass is very commonly used to sound the same note as the 'celli, but an octave down. I've lost count of the number of parts I've gotten that are labeled "Violoncello and Bass".

But the differences between string instruments are more than just the tuning. Violas and basses are not built to the same scale that violins and 'celli are. They have to be constructed to a smaller scale to be playable by humans.

[Tom Holtz]

@Andy, PT-6? If you go on their website, you'll see it's not what you thought. It's either the PT-3 or an older PT-4. Unless he used a PT-6 in the recording & used the PT-3 or PT-4 in his pictures.

From the CCBQ website:

Craig is a Conn-Selmer Artist, and performs on the Conn 52-J tuba in the Center City Brass Quintet.

Those audio clips are bad to the bone. Nothing small or compact going on with that.

[ASTuba]

@Andy, PT-6? If you go on their website, you'll see it's not what you thought. It's either the PT-3 or an older PT-4. Unless he used a PT-6 in the recording & used the PT-3 or PT-4 in his pictures.

From the CCBQ website:

Craig is a Conn-Selmer Artist, and performs on the Conn 52-J tuba in the Center City Brass Quintet.

Those audio clips are bad to the bone. Nothing small or compact going on with that.

I was told by a close friend of Craig's that when he first started CCBQ, that he was playing a PT-6. He now uses a 52J in there. Maybe I'm wrong.

[Slamson]

I go both ways, using my 186CC for some literature and my Perantucci F for others. I brought my 1291 to a quintet rehearsal once and my colleagues politely asked me not to bring it back. Most of the time it's a matter of texture and scoring in the piece - lighter, less loud pieces work better with the F - darker, more "romantic" pieces seem to appeal to the CC.

[Chuck(G)]

You left out bari sax in the poll...

[iiipopes]

Or at least ophicliede. Now, would that be Bb or C oph?

[windshieldbug]

Or at least ophicliede. Now, would that be Bb or C oph?

Depends on the hand-horn your alto player uses...

[SplatterTone]

Bass crumhorn.

[ken k]

Boosey & Hawkes Eb (similar to a Besson 981). I believe Ken Amis uses a 981 in Empire. I think this is the perfect quintet horn. I've beenusing it for 20 years! It has a slightly fuller sound than the 983, especially on pieces like marches or dixieland style stuff.

I also have a friend who plays a Miraphone 184CC and he sounds great. The clarity of that horn is amazing.

I like the pitch center of the Eb. the notes just lay so well.


i also use a bass trombone occasionally for renaissance type stuff or contemporary literature that calls for the Bassbone like the Jan Bach or the Frackenpohl No. 2 has glisses written in.
ken k

[iiipopes]

Yes, for all but the biggest stuff, nobody should complain if a guy or girl who can really play shows up to quintet with a 184, a 981, a 4345, Even (cough) the Yammy 6 series F. It may not be perfect, but any of those should be right in the swing of things.

[tubacdk]

I was told by a close friend of Craig's that when he first started CCBQ, that he was playing a PT-6. He now uses a 52J in there. Maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe when the group started he used the PT-6, but he's not using that horn on any of the recordings. The 1st CCBQ Quintets album was recorded using a Cerveny Piggy, and I think the next couple albums he did on the PT-4. After that, it was the Conn 52J.

-ck

[MartyNeilan]

Sorry to jump in on this late.
IMHO, the most successful horns I have used for paid quintet gigs have been the Yamaha 621F (noone ever said it was too small) and the MW2145 Large Piston. The 621 is very much the Chuck D style of sound and that F has a big enough low register to balance 2 trumpets, 1 horn and 1 trombone. The 2145 LP had solid intonation and a good high register, but I always thought the sound was too dark and blah, no matter what the mouthpiece.
Of my current horns, I feel the 2155R CC feels a little to big for the average quintet, although I have yet to try it in a serious one. The Cerveny F has a great rich dark sound with lots of projection throughout most of the playing registers, but anything below low D starts to get some of that F tuba brassiness where a CC (or the Yammie F's) have that rich contrabass timbre. Although I was very concerned about the bottom end, a trumpet player commented that he liked the clarity that F tuba provided vs. the 188 he usually played with.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I have used a YCB-621 in quintets for many years, which is essentially the same as the YFB-621, but more plumbing.

Any possible complaint of it not providing enough bottom, is just ridiculous. Since the tuba provides the lowest notes in the quintet harmonies, those notes will always be heard, just as the higest notes in a chord will always be heard. It is the middle voices that tend to get lost in the harmonic texture.

[jeopardymaster]

I've been playing with the local university's faculty quintet for 20 years. 4 of us, with the exception of our 2d trumpet, have been together all that time, and the "newbie" has been with us for 10 years. Such continuity has been one of the greater joys I've derived in this short life of mine.

In that time we've performed a goodly percentage of the available literature. Most of it I've played on my 184 CC. I do a halfway decent job on bass trombone, so that option has been available for some of the ABQ and other 2-trombone type pieces, but our preference has been for me to play bass trombone parts on tuba or euphonium for the sake of group "signature." I added a Besson 983 Eb into the mix in 1998, which I tend to use on transcriptions and the heavier 2-trombone settings - such as pieces by Sanders and Dahl. It's become something of a "default" choice for us, with the Mirafone coming in for the very heavy stuff.

But that's just us. Whatever you're playing on, take your best shot and do it, because there is no musical experience quite so enjoyable as quintet. But whatever your choice of tuba, you'll get to do a lot more if you pick up some bass trombone, or at least euphonium, chops.

[Rick Denney]

Let's pick three of the better known brass quintets: the Empire Brass, the American Brass Quintet and the Canadian Brass. I don't see an F tuba in the bunch.

Yes. And if I ever play in one of those quintets, my command of the contrabass will be good enough to provide that choice.

For the sort of player that I am, however, the F tuba makes much quintet literature available to me that would be a struggle on a contrabass.

I have played quintet music with Bb tubas, but now I only use F. I have spend 18 months or so playing the B&S in the quintet as a tool to force me to gain proficiency on that instrument, but recently I've gone back to the Yamaha 621 F for quintet. With the 621, I can use more of the instrument's dynamic range without burying the quintet.

Also, the 621 can go trombonelike effectively, and makes it a good choice for music that is written for bass trombone. It can blend with the trombone, or be a distinct voice, as necessary.

Of course, it depends on the quintet, too. If the other members of my quintet were like those in the three groups Mark mentioned, then I would probably need a bigger tuba to keep up.

Rick "who thinks sound clarity is the one essential feature of a quintet" Denney