Does this piece have a tuba part?

[tubafatness]

I was wanting to know if Brahms' "Academic Festival Overture" has a tuba part? I assume not, but I wanted to be sure. I haven' been able to find much in the way of instrumentation. This is the piece that my local district orchestra is playing, (as part of the Illinois Music Educator's Association festival.) The bad part is, I was told this summer that the piece was actually going to be the full version of the Prelude to Die Meistersinger. Imagine my dissapointment when I heard otherwise. Anyway, any help would be appreciated.

[MikeMason]

I have a different take on this.If you didn't know it had a part,it gives a hint as to your level as a player.It should be taken very seriously if you plan to play it at a high level.A 2 octave C leap is not chump change in my book and should be studied and prepared well in advance.Forgive me if my assessment of your level is wrong,just my take.

[Alex C]

In concert with Mike: this is a relatively big part, especially for Brahms.

The last couple of lines (including the two octave C's) can be challenging, to say the least. If you have to play Academic Festival, get a copy of the part and listen to some recordings or you could make a very bad impression.

[Mark]

I was wanting to know if Brahms' "Academic Festival Overture" has a tuba part?

The Dayton Philharmonic had this piece on their audition list in 2005. The last several measures will show if you have been practicing you interval studies.

[Wyvern]

Yes, it definitely is a demanding enough part that you should listen to CD's and look at part in advance.

It is included in the Cherry Excerpts - http://www.cherry-classics.com/

Not much Brahms includes a tuba, but what there is should not be taken for granted.

[tubafatness]

To quote MikeMason:
"I have a different take on this.If you didn't know it had a part,it gives a hint as to your level as a player."

Well, thanks for ruining my day, Mike Mason. I was just asking a question about a tuba part, not asking for an assessment of my playing skill. I had read two different accounts of the tuba part for this piece; one that talked about said difficult part, and one that said there was no tuba part at all. So I thought I would ask the board here for any extra advice. Thanks for taking a cheap shot against me.
Thanks to everyone else who said things nicely,
Aaron Hynds

P.S., sorry if I misread your post, but that's my take on it.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think that Mike could have chosen better wording, such as: "If you didn't know it had a part, it gives a hint as to your level of experience as a player.", but let's not be so thin skinned, folks!

[MikeMason]

Upon rereading my post,it does sound pretty harsh.Sorry.Good luck with a fun tuba part.

[Rick Denney]

Thanks for taking a cheap shot against me.
Thanks to everyone else who said things nicely...

Aaron, don't expect people to be "nice". Please, for your own peace of mind. Expect them to be "honest". There is no way what Mike said was a cheap shot, which I define as an insult taken because it's easy not because it's true. He made a careful assessment that perhaps was wrong, but it was still careful and he included the reason for his assumption. If it doesn't apply to you, then let it slide by or provide a simple correction--it was intended in good faith, and that was obvious to me as a disinterested observer.

What does you no good is for a bunch of hot-shot players to assume you are a hot-shot too (without really knowing, since all we have here are words), leading you to underestimate the part and find that tricky lick at rehearsal when it's too late to develop the fundamental skills needed. Because of what Mike said, you won't make that mistake, so even if his connection of your experience to your ability was wrong, it still led to a proper result.

I first met the Academica Festival Overture in an amateur orchestra many years ago, and I was mighty glad to have lots of time to work it up. The music is a lot of fun and you'll enjoy it. Just don't underestimate it. My appreciation for Brahms grew significantly as a result of participating in performance rather than just listening to others perform his work.

Rick "thinking good-faith advice is never a cheap shot even when based on mistaken assumptions" Denney

[Eupher6]

Not to kick a dead horse (he's dying, I'm afraid), it's somewhat intimidating to put even the most harmless of questions "out there" for comment.

Ideally, the only "stupid" question is the only that's not asked, per the statement we've all heard. But we all know that in a discussion forum such as this one, someone's going to perceive that question that we've agonized about asking in a manner less than we'd hoped. So it's easy to respond defensively.

I'm not casting any stones here, just saying that sometimes even a question posed with all the due diligence one can muster isn't always observed that way. Conflict arises. We work through the conflict, and hopefully learn something in the process.

For one, I didn't know that the Brahms had a 2-octave leap in it!

(Maybe now that horse can die.... )

[Mark]

Aaron,

The best way to check if a work has a tuba part is to look in Orchestral Music - A Handbook by David Daniels. Amazon sells it. It is expensive, but it is a great resource and a good long-term investment. If you can't buy it right now, try to find a copy in a library.

If you can't find a copy of Daniels, try looking on the Luck's Music Web site. Here is the Brahms: http://www.lucksmusic.net/cat-symph/sho ... ogNo=05199. The importatnt part for you is the second group of numbers, "/4331". This number means 4 French horns, 3 trumpets, 3 trombones and 1 tuba. So, the work does have a tuba part.

If Lucks doen't have the work listed, then try finding out who the publisher is and check their web site for instrumentation.

The Cherry CD (http://www.cherry-classics.com) does have this part as well as a ton of others you should have. I would definitely buy the CD before the Daniels book, BTW.

Finally, you can always ask on TubeNet and brave the responses.

[windshieldbug]

Yo!! Asking those kind of questions is why TubeNet's here! Otherwise, its just hotshot's plugging their lastest product, or hotshots arguing endlessly over lacquer/silver/raw and piston/rotor. We all know THAT gets old pretty quick... and what IS productive is something like Mark's post telling people who don't know where to look. And personal observations on learning the part, and playing it. So, Aaron, you came to the right place.

Yes, the 'net is not for the faint-of-heart or the underconfident. And yes, one needs to learn that, too.

Now excuse me while I go pull the legs off of this fly that I've already pulled the wings off of...

[windshieldbug]

Helllllllp meeeeeee, hellllllllp meeeeeeee!!!

Whoops! Pulled the legs off Scooby Tuba by mistake! Sorry Scoob!

[tubacharlton]

I think any defense of the rude answer to that question is utterly ridiculous. A guy askes a question abut the musical repertoire, and gets an assessment of his playing ability. I bet Bobo hasn't seen every work ever written, nor Jacobs, nor...and so on, ad nauseum. But, I suspect few would suppose to tell him that thier grasp of the instrument, expertise, whatever, was suspect.

90% of the dudes out here couldn't waddle thier way through the VW concerto, but like to talk shop, instruments, get helpful advice on playing, etc. I think the guys (and, it seems, gals, too) who are winning the big jobs are too busy practicing to level shots at someone asking a simple and honest question.

Those who seem so vitriolic (and evidently compensatory about some other hitherto shortcomings) hopefully don't have a lot of students to mistreat...but my guess is the free market would dictate that to be the case more often than not.

Funny how the real experts - the Jacobs', Torchinsky's and Deck's of the world seem to be the nicest and most helpful teachers. Perhaps they are good models beyond thier musical expertise, eh?

Alas, my skin is probably too thin - and thankfully I get to play in a great volunteer orchestra playing great music with fun freindly people who, like my bass trombone brother, also happen to be great players, too.

[Rick Denney]

Funny how the real experts - the Jacobs', Torchinsky's and Deck's of the world seem to be the nicest and most helpful teachers. Perhaps they are good models beyond thier musical expertise, eh?

Alas, my skin is probably too thin - and thankfully I get to play in a great volunteer orchestra playing great music with fun freindly people who, like my bass trombone brother, also happen to be great players, too.

With all due respect, your own response is quite as belittling as the responses you are complaining about. And further, because you have only posted a few times, you don't have the track record to demonstrate what a great guy you are except for this one small lapse. The response may appear rude in isolation (though I didn't perceive it so--mistaken, yes; intentionally rude, no), but is much less so in the context of an established positive contribution to Tubenet.

I have not noticed any particular correlation between being nice and being a great tuba player. Some great players are nice and some are less so. All tuba players tend to be nicer than other musicians, by my observation, and many are remarkably friendly, both among the great and the modest. I also have noticed that there is no sure correlation between being "nice" and being friendly and helpful. Sometimes the curmudgeons are the friendliest and most helpful when you get to know them. Stick around.

Rick "who thinks a few words typed in haste are not enough evidence to judge a person" Denney

[lgb&dtuba]

90% of the dudes out here couldn't waddle thier way through the VW concerto,

Not sure what a VW has to do with this, but ok.

Jim "how many tuba's can you fit in a VW anyway?" Wagner

[windshieldbug]

Not sure what a VW has to do with this, but ok.

Jim "how many tuba's can you fit in a VW anyway?" Wagner

Depends not only on what key they're in, but what size they are...

[Rick Denney]

PFFT!

That is reserved for A Guy (who used to be) in California, who I impersonate at my peril.

Rick "who knows his limitations" Denney

[iiipopes]

Or, in a word, BALDERDASH!

[MikeMason]

was googling myself today to see if anyone was telling lies about me on the internet nope,only the cold hard truth.... so, how'd that performance that i helped prepare you for turn out ?