What's the worst tuba you've ever played?

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:32 pm

Before the continental standard settled at A=440, they tried A=435 for a while...

TonyZ · Post by **TonyZ** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:15 pm

About 13 years ago, I played a Cerveny Kaiser CC 4 valve. I already had a BBb, so I was expecting nice things. When I played it, the horn was gorgeous, so I played a C scale from C below the staff to C in the staff, and the top C was 20 cents lower than the low C, which was right on. I thought it was me, but 25 minutes later, I found a host of other problems. I wanted to leave with that horn, but it made me too sad. I've since played others that are great, but that one must have snuck out of the factory.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:35 pm

When I started teaching at my school (21 years ago, Yikes!) we had a matched pair of Getzen bell front baritone horns. The intonation on them was so bad i just stopped having kids play them. Unfortunately the young kids would not know any better and just keep on playing. The low series of notes (low Bb A Ab G, etc.) was a half step flat. Well what is the most played note in begining band baritone parts? You guessed it low Bb. These horns were truly pieces of junk. The bells looked like something out of the plumbing store, they were sectioned together rather than being made of one piece. These were made of about 4 pieces all soldered together. I don't know how old these horns were. I am guessing they were from the 60's or 70's era. Getzen has come light years in their production quality of horns in the last 15-20 years. But they sure made junk back in the day. Who can forget the Frumpet?????

ken k

TonyZ · Post by **TonyZ** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:21 pm

ken k wrote:Who can forget the Frumpet?????

ken k

My God, there's one of those buggers in my basement RIGHT NOW!!

tubafatness · Post by **tubafatness** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:27 pm

Old bell-front Cerveny BBb. Had cracked valves, badly dented body, and actually kind of smelled bad. Horrible.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:28 am

A Paolo Rondoni, Verona 4 rotary valve upright Eb horn, that was given to me by my teacher/mentor Irv Cohen. He gave it to me for the same reason he had picked it up from a "Sons Of Italy" band... it is huge, and god, espescially for an Italian horn, it has a glorious sound!

Unfortunately the octaves are about a major 7th, and nothing, I mean NOTHING will correct it, not mouthpiece, throat, tuning bit, etc.

Yes, I still have it for the same reason, and if you only had to play something about a major 3rd it would be a KILLER horn, but otherwise...

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:03 am

TonyZ wrote:
ken k wrote:Who can forget the Frumpet?????

ken k
My God, there's one of those buggers in my basement RIGHT NOW!!

Yeah... not only did Getzen make the 'Frumpet', they also marketed a little sister to it... an Eb alto trumpet. It was about the same thing only with a smaller bell.

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:06 pm

The worst CC tuba that I've tried just came through my shop for "tuning". Nothing lined up on it with pitch and the response was lousey. It is a new Chinese horn with the "Se..man" brand on it. Run away, run away!

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:38 pm

Samâ€™s posting lets me out a suspicion surfacing through the last months:

This list holds a number of highly competent and honest repairmen as members: Bloke, Daniel O., Lee S., and Tubanurse. Each might have their own style, but I would trust them all. Only they are a bit far away from me distance- and customâ€“rules-wise.

The Chinese brand, which Sam refers to, in my eyes/ears has stolen its name from parts of the family name of one of the guys listed above here. Surely that family name holds some well-earned reputation. But Samâ€™s posting confirms to me, that none of this alleged Chinoise prestige is backed by any kind of Chinese quality of manufacturing.

Some consider the cheap Chinese goods a blessing for the Western marketplaces. I consider them pollution.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:49 pm

schlepporello wrote:It's very possible that if left alone it might self-destruct.

Then again, it might not have, so why take a chance?

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:13 pm

Schleppy, please do not specify, what happens in your tuba barn. We already know, who taught them being naughty.

K

Dennis K. · Post by **Dennis K.** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:57 pm

The worst tuba I have ever played was a bell-front, 3 valve sopranino tuba. Nearly every person I have met who plays one regularly seems to have a matching personality - i.e. brazen and arrogant.

who can name this tuba?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:38 pm

He said "sopranino" not "soprano":

or maybe

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:55 pm

I'm with Tom; same bore profile!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:55 am

windshieldbug wrote:I'm with Tom; same bore profile!

Same concept maybe. But I suspect you'd be suprised if you scaled up the instrument by a factor of 6 (to make it a Bb tuba) while maintaining the dimensionless ratios. The bell in the picture seems to be about four inches, and the bore is probably around .4 inches, which is a bell-to-bore ratio of 10. And the bugle length of 40 inches or so is 100 times the bore. A tuba with an 18-foot bugle (BBb) would have a bore of 2.16 inches and a bell of 22 inches. The bell sounds about right (though perhaps not for the same bell shape and rotary design), but the bore would really test the old air flow.

Rick "thinking a real contrabass flugelhorn would be mighty impressive if somebody could play it" Denney

lgb&dtuba · Post by **lgb&dtuba** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:01 pm

Rick Denney wrote:
windshieldbug wrote:I'm with Tom; same bore profile!
A tuba with an 18-foot bugle (BBb) would have a bore of 2.16 inches and a bell of 22 inches. The bell sounds about right (though perhaps not for the same bell shape and rotary design), but the bore would really test the old air flow.

Would you scale the bore up that way or by cross sectional area?

Just asking.

Jim "I sure don't have that much air" Wagner

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:33 pm

None of the above. You're forgetting the third dimension. Think volume.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:08 pm

lgb&dtuba wrote:Would you scale the bore up that way or by cross sectional area?

The only thing I scaled was the length of the bugle. That's a hard one to avoid. Everything else derived from maintaining dimensionless ratios. Think about it--the bell-to-bore ratio is inches divided by inches and has no units. Bell area to bore area is square inches divided by square inches and has no units. You'll end up with the same results.

For example, if I used a bell are-to-bore area ratio of 100 (a 12.6inch^2 bell and a .126inch^2 bore, which are the 4" and .4" diameters above), then my 380inch^2 bell on a Bb tuba would have a bore (at the same scale) of 3.8inch^2. That's a diameter of 2.2", just as we got using only length and the 10x factor.

And as long as the taper proportions are the same, it will work with volume, too. The easiest way to maintain the taper proportion is to calculate the diameter at x-percent from the mouthpiece or bell opening. If you do that, then any arbitrary portion of the instrument will maintain the unitless volume ratios, too. For example, the ratio of the volume of the 10% closest to the bell opening (i.e., the bell stack) versus the volume of the bugle in the 20% closest to the mouthpiece (i.e., through the open valves) would be maintained in scaling. You'd end up with the same area and linear dimensions.

That's why you stick with the unitless ratios--they are unaffected by how many axes you include.

It was Fred Young who first suggested (on Tubenet, at least) maintaining the dimensionless ratios as a means of scaling instruments.

But there's a way to test the resulting effect. Take a nice fleugelhorn solo--one that has a sound you like--and play it back at 1/4 speed. That's what a scaled tuba would sound like. Or, even more telling, take a tuba sound, and play it back at four times normal speed. The result would not at all impress a fleugelhorn player.

Rick "noting the compromises made to keep the instruments in the humanoid range" Denney

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:17 pm

[quote="Dennis K."] Nearly every person I have met who plays one regularly seems to have a matching personality - i.e. brazen and arrogant.

Dennis, don't you play one of those iddy biddy tubas yourself?

Dennis K. · Post by **Dennis K.** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:22 pm

tbn.al wrote:
Dennis K. wrote: Nearly every person I have met who plays one regularly seems to have a matching personality - i.e. brazen and arrogant.

Dennis, don't you play one of those iddy biddy tubas yourself?

I am a proud player of a tenor tuba. Lesser men call them euphoniums.
***ducks and runs for cover***