MW Eb tubas

[iiipopes]

The guy who probably knows more about MW Eb tubas is Mark Carter in England, aka Mr. Tuba, as he has had MW make two models for him to market under his own name, as well as a BBb comp & a CC orchestral.
http://www.mrtuba.com

There are two really good reviews on the tubas at TubaNews:
http://www.tubanews.com

[Wyvern]

I have a 2040/5, the 5 rotary valve version and find it a great instrument producing a clear, but colourful F tuba like sound.

I find it suitable for anything from solos and quintets, to concert band and even full symphony orchestra (for F tuba type parts) where it has no trouble sounding through the texture. In concert band it nicely works on the top part complementing the other player on BBb.

Intonation is good with the slides pulled appropriately and it has an open low register with plenty of harmonics. I have tried various mouthpieces and like the PT-90 with it the best, although a PT24+, or 24AW produces an appropriate sound for playing in a brass band.

You should not fear the rotary valves. I had always played piston valves before, but love the rotors for their reliability. Only one stick in 18 months, and that was when some dirt went down the leadpipe.

The workmanship is excellent as you would expect from Meinl-Weston and I cannot see why it should not last a lifetime if cared for and maintained.

My only personal criticism was that the leadpipe is rather high, but I now use a playing stand (set the same height as for my Neptune CC) and that works fine.

Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions.

Jonathan

[charlieJ]

I played the 2040 4 valve that was at Dillons last year and was really struck by it. Excellent tone and intonation, and was (for me at least) one of the best Eb tubas I had played, regardless of price. I've played virtually all the modern Ebs: Nirschl's, MW, B&S, Miraphone, etc. That 2040 at Dillons was a great horn. I would have bought it but I was waiting for the Norwegian Star, at which point the 2040 at Dillons had been scarfed up...

[Stefan Kac]

I went to ITEC this past summer with the intent of playing as many horns as humanly possible and choosing the best one for me regardless of key or price. I ended up with the MW 2141 and I'm very happy with it. I feel like I could play in any conceivable ensemble or musical context with this horn. The Willson 3400 was slightly "easier" to play, but I was not thrilled with the sound. My only complaint about the MW is the placement of the fifth valve, but I'm getting used to it, and it wouldn't be too complicated to have it modified by a repair person if I decide to go that route.

If nothing else, I can hardly ever recall a used 2141 being put up for sale on this site; that's got to be a good sign.

[tubeast]

Tried the 2040/5 once. Very nice horn, easy to control, easy to achieve my personal best sound.
I personally think that Ebs are too close to CCs for me to consider buying one.
If I were to get a new toy to add to my horns, I´d go for another F.

[Teubonium]

I bought a new MW2141 in January this year and I LOVE it ! I have used it in quintet and 3 different concert bands. It holds its own in the bands and I'm now considering getting rid of my Miraphone 186 BBb which I never use any more. I'm still in the process of selecting a mouthpiece, right now I'm using a Conn Helleberg which seems to be the best choice for me, though I've just been using it for 2 weeks. (Get good results with a Kellyberg too).

The piston valve set is the MW "Big valves" which take some getting used to. If you have small hands, this could be a problem, not a problem for my "gorilla paws".

[GC]

Which is darker and which has the better low range, the 2141 or the 2040?

[Wyvern]

How is the high range? Can I play way-too-loud on it?

Would this be a good "almost only" tuba?

No problem with high range - in fact on playing around on my 2040/5 the first evening I got it, I managed to hit that high G# in Bydlo on first attempt. The only thing I have found is that the top E works better with 2nd valve, than 1+2, but that may be just my particular instrument.

No problem with volume - can carry over the largest ensemble

It would be a good "almost only" tuba as long as you are not planning to play something like Prokofiev 5 with a large symphony orchestra!

[iiipopes]

Hey Bob1062 -- your comment about the 4th valve is exactly why I'd like to see the pivot bar modified like I described above.

[Wyvern]

Leadpipe was not a problem, although it seemed to come out at a weird angle. Any ideas for that?

You could use a sousaphone bit to change the angle. I have tried one in mine and it worked fine with good sound and no intonation problems.

[DanClouse]

I recently bought the 2141 from Roger down at the Brasswind, and though I haven't gotten my Eb (I'm a recovering F player!) reading chops up to par yet to take it to orchestra or quintet, I have not doubt that it will do the job well.

First off, intonation is very good. The one note that seems a little funky is the E natural in the staff, and I think getting the right mouthpiece (I'm waiting) will help that a good deal. The fingerings in the low register are pretty standard fare for 4+1. There are a coulpe other alternate fingerings that the user needs to be aware of, but nothing out the the usual.

Second, the low register rocks. All the way down is open and easy, and sounds like a good tuba ought to sound without messing with my face to get it.

Third, dynamic control. The horn is big, so it offers a LOT of power when you need it, but has good response and tone in the soft dynamics too.

Fourth, this horn can probably be used in most situations. I have never played F in quintet because I really crave a CC tuba sound in the low register, and this horn delivers. It also displays clear ringing tone in the mid and upper register, giving it a distinct voice against the big tuba in a tuba quartet. That clear ringing voice will also help in high orchestral stuff.

On the other hand, I don't think this is an instrument that is suited for ALL big low orchestral/band stuff if you have a larger CC/contrabass available.

I'm sure as I spend more time with this horn, my opinions will mature, and may even change. The important point is that MW has a good horn on their hands.

Incidentally, I tried the 2040 and thought it was a good horn as well, but it didn't sparkle for me.

[DanClouse]

The rotor Eb was a good horn too, but, a lot of it was personal choise. I prefer the feel of pistons both under my fingers and when I blow. That was one big thing for me. The other thing was that I felt that the 2040 was just a little less consistent from note to note than the 2141. Again, this may be a personal bias because I like and am more comfy with pistons. People who like rotors may come up with exactly the opposite conclusion.

The other reason I liked the piston version better was that I felt I could push on it a little harder and it would take it. It felt better on the loud-n-raucous side. Less feedback perhaps? More open? who knows.

I did get a chance to play it against the 45slp, as well as the miraphone firebird F, the yamaha 822 F, the Besson/Sheridan Eb, the Wilson Eb. I tried a few other horns as well, including the 2040, but they all start to blur together after a while.

My method was as follows: I had already tried and like the Yam 822 a few months before, so I figured I would end up there after all was said and done. As a result, I put it last on my list of trials. I've been toying with the idea of Eb for about a year now, but never really learned Eb, so I thought I'd start there to see what was comfy and good.

I went through the Eb's one by one, changes mouthpieces, diferent scales, arpeggios, tunes, ranges, styles, articulation... I got to the 2141 early on and kept coming back to it.

I went to the F's at this point, and was promptly disappointed by most everything because they all felt dull and difficult to play. The miraphone firebird has a great sound, but the low register still peters out in comparison to the Eb's, and like I said, I'm a fan of pistons. In comparison to most F tubas, it's fantastic, but it still didn't feel quite right for me. The 45slp was frankly disappointing for me at this point, but not because it's not a good F tuba. I think it IS a good F tuba, but the tone just was not the same as the 2141 in all the registers.

Finally, I tried the Yam 822 and expected to choose it because I know I fit well with it, and it's a very well-behaved horn. In fact, I've been trying to get one for 6 months. I was surprised again at how easy it is to play, and the evenness of tone and intonation throughout the range. What really sold me though was how much more present and beautiful my tone was on the 2141 vs the yamaha.

When I asked Roger the price, it was a full 2 grand below the price of the Yamaha, and I was sold. So was the horn.

[MartyNeilan]

I could see how the 2141 would be an excellent horn in quintet. If you put the detailed pictures of this and the 2145 side by side, they are strikingly similar (with the Eb actually having a little more bell flare than the bell-starved CC). I thought the 2145 was an outstanding quintet / small ensemble horn, perhaps my only complaint being that it was a little too dark. I am sure chopping off a couple feet of tubing and making it an Eb brightens it enough to achieve the desired timbre while keeping all the other positive aspects. Unfortunately, the pics from the MW website are not to scale with each other.

[DanClouse]

One of my students plays a 2145. As I get more comfortable on the Eb, I'll bring it into a lesson and compare. I'll report back.

[Wyvern]

Jonathan, I also played the Neptune .
You gotta try this. Maybe it was just the room I played in, but low "fake" D with 12 was just awesome. "Fake" C with 13 or 4 was pretty lousy, but that low D just filled up everything and sounded fantastic.

Thanks Bob - I will give that a try!

I have not yet really tried out its "fake" notes potential. The only one I have used so far has been Eb with 1 which worked well.

Dan,
What you have described about the 2141, very much matches my experience using on my rotary 2040/5. That has no problems really projecting - I even used for Mahler 6 (before I got my Neptune) and it came through well. I know, because I have a recording of the concert.

[Wyvern]

Care to share that recording?

No I don't mind sharing, but the file is massive and I don't know how to extract an except.

[charlieJ]

The Man had 2 of them at ITEC in Denver - a Besson 981 style 3+1 omper and a front action 4 valve. They were exceptionally nice instruments in every regard from my limited playing. Most of my time was on the 3+1. I really liked it, but the ~ $16,000 price tag left me somewhat light-headed. It was not significantly better than my old 982 or newer 982. And for the price I could buy the 2141 (they are very good), take the missus to Hawaii for a week, and still have $$ left for a Norwegian Star when we got back.

[Wyvern]

Care to share that recording?

For Doc and anyone else who wants to hear, the last movement of Mahler 6 can be downloaded here:

http://www.yousendit.com/download/WSDKwtFEbWw%3D

The file is 26Mb, so don't attempt unless you have broadband!

I am playing the tuba part on my MW 2040/5 Eb with the Surrey Mahler Orchestra - an amateur orchestra, so don't expect too much!

It was just recorded with microphones front of stage, so should give a balanced sound picture. I think it illustrates that the 2040/5 can project even through an orchestra of over 100. As examples, listen to the tuba entries at 12:12 and 13:40.

[Steve Inman]

Cool, thanks.


I read that the first models had horrible intonation; when did they change?

I just happend upon this from an unrelated Google search, from the old Tubenet:

Posted by Wayne Forrest on January 27, 2004 at 11:11:45:

I just purchased a Meinl Weston 2141 Eb tuba. Having read previous messages about the horn and changes to it to improve its intonation I contacted MW directly and asked them above what serial number would have these modifications. Here's the response (January 2004.

"Yes you are right we did a lot of testing together with the "Melton"-Tubaquartett and improved the 2141. I am not 100% sure when the improvement was but I am sure all instrument with a higher number than 3000 are the better ones!
Sincerely

Volkmar J. K�hnle // Wenzel Meinl GmbH http://www.meinl-weston.comSeniweg 4 http://www.melton.de D-82538 Geretsried Tel. 08171 92187-0 Fax: 08171 92187-19"

In my opinion this horn plays quite well and in tune in all registers. With the 5th valve the notes below the staff come in very true, especially the low E pedal that is hard to play on a non compensating 3 or 4 valve Eb. The horn is very hard to distinguish from a BBb or CC, especially if played in a resonant hall. I believe that we often forget that the halls we play in are extensions of our instruments and are not taken into account when we purchase horns. I am using it as my principal horn, its versatility being the main reason. If you are in the market now, consider buying a horn thats already been imported. Anything new coming in from Germany will be much more expensive because of the 25-40% euro appreciation.

HTH ...

Regards,

[Wyvern]

Leadpipe was not a problem, although it seemed to come out at a weird angle. Any ideas for that?

You could use a sousaphone bit to change the angle. I have tried one in mine and it worked fine with good sound and no intonation problems.

How exactly does that work? I last played a sousa a decade ago and can't picture it.

They are dog legged, so you can turn around to the angle you want. It works, but mind you looks a bit weird!