Why?

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Cost may well be a factor. I think, because of the cost, they are not the kind of instruments that one buys/trades frivolously.

Also, I think that people tend to hold onto them, once they got'em!

[Rick Denney]

I always read that the swiss tubas such as Hirsbrunner and Willson are very good horns. But when one have a look at most of the posts and around the net, very few have these tubas especially the hirsbrunners. Even very few information is found such as reviews. Is it because of their price tags or because they don't perform as good as the others such as Besson or Meinl Weston?

Mythical instruments attract a lot of talk, and popular instruments get compared to them. I suspect the Hirsbrunners fall in between--not quite rare enough to be thought wonderful in the absense of actual experience, but too expensive to really be owned by a large number of Tubenetters.

But lots of pros own Hirsbrunners in their various forms.

That said, I have to say that I'm not a fan of the in-house Hirsbrunner designs. The older rotary Hirsbrunners have always sounded tubby to me. Their tubas modeled on American designs are much better and are sometimes truly awesome. I've played Yorkbrunners that seemed magic to me, and I've played other Yorkbrunners that couldn't hold a candle to my Holton, at least with me playing it.

And praise for the intonation of some Hirsbrunner models is not exactly universal, but that's true for most tubas.

I do have extreme respect for the Hirsbrunner F tuba. But it is twice as expensive as a B&S, and that has to limit popularity.

Willson's big tubas have always seemed detached to me, and I've found it difficult to understand the connection between what I did and what comes out of the bell. Good pros may not need that feedback, but I sure do. I love the Willson F tubas, particularly the rotary F, and these are quite popular and tend not to get sold once owned. And Willson is just about the strongest contender in the euphonium market. Again, owners tend not to turn them over. Like with Hirsbrunner, they occupy that middle ground between cheap instruments people like to discuss and mythical instruments that few seem to describe based on concrete experience.

The craftsmanship of the Swiss has never been questioned that I have heard. But design affects playability more than execution, within reason.

Rick "thinking the Tubenet Freak Jury isn't necessarily representative" Denney

[XtremeEuph]

Yes I have the same question about Euphoniums, well not the WIllsons of course but I never ever see or hear a Hirsbrunner euphonium though some consider them so godly. Anyone want to shed me some light as to some pros who play a HIrsbrunner Euph? (anyone wanna send me a picture of a REAl Hirsbrunner stealth ehehe)

[XtremeEuph]

Yes I have the same question about Euphoniums, well not the WIllsons of course but I never ever see or hear a Hirsbrunner euphonium though some consider them so godly. Anyone want to shed me some light as to some pros who play a HIrsbrunner Euph? (anyone wanna send me a picture of a REAl Hirsbrunner stealth ehehe)

[imperialbari]

The below lines were written as a draft before Rick posted on this thread. We have some very similar views, but then I may add a bit although:

I can only speak for my own country:

During 1984 through 2001 (when I stopped travelling, so I can’t speak for later on) all interested in Hirsbrunner could regularly test them out in a Copenhagen shop or on conventions/exhibitions. Hirsbrunner had good relations with two repairmen with a shared shop.

Hirsbrunner sent up instruments for presentation and with at least one new model also for evaluation. Even I was asked for my opinion, which was with almost all other testers and with anything Hirsbrunner:

Superbly made. Easy to play. But too expensive for those not having their instruments paid by their orchestras or bands.

The shop did not want to carry the tubas in stock, as the margin was too narrow. They relayed customers directly to Hirsbrunner. I remember being told, that before one even would be accepted for the waiting list for the original Yorkbrunner with the old style bottom bow, then one had to cough up 40 or 50% of the stipulated end price.

I have tried their baritone prototype (which never became a marketed model), a few euphs, and the prototype for their 4P+1RV F-tuba. I strongly considered buying a euph, but was warned off due to the price. I bought my 641, and its slightly darker sound suited my concept a bit better in the longer run.

That is my take on, why many players have had a chance to test Hirsbrunners, but a whole lot fewer own one.

Without naming any other Swiss makers:

Another low brass list told about a retired brass player realigning the piston ports of mid-low brasses. This resulting in much better instruments. That Swiss maker used to arrange its production in assembly line style. Hirsbrunner at least used to have a high percentage of highly skilled craftsmen compared to the numbers of their output.

And the sad thing is, that I once thanked no to test the factory demo of the Yourkbrunner. So much for being shy.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre
(who got his new stationary Mac today, so I have been working on customising the set-up. It is up and running on the web, but I am by far not done yet. So this late posting has been done on the older one)

[Tubaryan12]

Why?

Because.

we like you. M, O, U, S, E.......

[zeign7]

In reference to the euphonium hirsbrunners, I have heard that it is a very different sound than what most bands are looking for and beyond that, well, what does a euphonium player have for a job?

I play euphonium and I own a hirsbrunner. I was lucky enough to get this horn used for a fair price (3k). One of the main reasons I chose this horn is because it has a MUCH different sound that what I was accustomed to from Yamaha and Wilson. I am, however, not looking into getting a band job, so my tone is completely up to me.

One interesting aspect I encountered with this horn was that I couldn't use old mouthpiece with it. When I bought this horn I was playing on an SM3 mouthpiece and many of the notes were unnaturally flat when using the 4th valve and were also very stuffy. After talking to Lloyd Bone at ITEC, who also plays on a hirsbrunner euphonium, I decided to try swapping some equipment and trying a few different things out. Now I am by no means and equipment junkie, I prefer to make the change mentally and to produce whatever sound I desire with any equipment, but switching mouthpieces really made a difference in this case. I switched to a mouthpiece with a smaller backbore and everything evened out, notes with the 4th valve now pop out twice as loud and are in tune.

In the end, I wouldn't say that it is a superior horn worthy of throwing thousands upon thousands of dollars away but I got a good deal. It really depends on what sound you're looking to produce too, for hirsbrunner is just so different. I prefer the darker sound though.

just my two cents

P.S. The Stealth.............now THAT'S if you have money to throw around! ha

[Rick F]

Extreme wanted a picture of the Stealth model. You can read about it here:

http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/hbstlth.html

Note that the bore size is 'OD' and not the standard measurement of inside diameter.
_________

zeign7,

$3K is a great price!

[Chen]

I was at Custom music 3 days ago, got to play their tubas. I haven't played tuba for a while, so I was really out of shape. Like learning the bicycle, it came back quickly (but of course not nearly 100%). There were two tubas that I especially liked, the PT-606PS and the HB-2P. I finally figured if I was still a performance major and looking for a CC tuba, I'd probably go for the 606P. The 2P was an AWSOME tuba. I liked it maybe even a bit more than the 606P, overall. But they are both terrific tubas that and I think will serve any musician playing at the highest level very well.

If they were the same price, I'd buy the 2P. However, I don't think, based solely on the playing difference between the 2 and the price difference between the 2, the difference in price is justified.

But one more thing, from what I've seen in the last 10 yrs, I also believe Hirsbrunners will last longer and wear/age better (unless people who buy HB just don't play as much as people who buy PT; or maybe people are more careful when they play more, who knows?). More importantly, I think the sound of Hirsbrunner actually gets better and better over the years; PT tubas however, pretty much stay the same. Again this is from my personal experience. Where I come from, it's usually HB or PT for tuba-playing musicians.

Willson tubas are also built like tanks, but the sound isn't as good as HB or PT, IMO.


A well-respected repairman in Pittsburgh once told me the workmanship on Hirsbrunners is superior than Perantucci's, and he's seen a lot of these, outside and inside.

By the way Custom music is a great place with LOTS of tubas. Gosh, I don't think I've ever seen so many Hirsbrunners tubas at the same time. And it broke my Yorkbrunner fantasy, too, I can't play it.

The HB-9 big rotary F tuba, BTW, has depth and brilliance I never heard from any other rotary F tubas, maybe except Alexander's. And low range (including low C) as good as any most up-to-date PT (PT-15) or MW (45SLZ) rotary F tubas.

[Tubaryan12]

Extreme wanted a picture of the Stealth model. You can read about it here:

http://www.custommusiccorp.com/tubas/hbstlth.html

Note that the bore size is 'OD' and not the standard measurement of inside diameter.
_________

zeign7,

$3K is a great price!

They say it looks as good as in the picture....wrong....it looks better!