Vaughan Williams Question for Brits(UK)?

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Wyvern
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Post by Wyvern »

Doc wrote:The "I WILL be heard" attitude has been prevalent much longer than many of us have been around, as has the arms race that was the inevitable result. Most of us have participated/do participate in this arms race, as well as retain this attitude of "ME" to some degree. How many are selfless enough to be content simply blending with the ensemble without being a discernible voice in the ensemble?
Doc, I don't know if it is just the "ME" attitude, but our perception of what is the "RIGHT" balance. Music has become much more bass heavy in the last 50 years and that has no doubt, consciously, or unconsciously changed our perception. Also, what we hear on recordings has also changed our perception of how the tuba should balance.

Who but Wagner can really definitively say if the tuba should be the predominant voice in the overture to Meistersinger, or blend in more with the basses. I think unless the conductor says he wants otherwise, most of us take it to be a solo for the tuba, leading the bass ensemble.

Although commendably selfless I think most of us today would consider the balance in Arthur Doyle's day as rather thin and a professional tubist who just blended and did no give a real foundation would not be considered up to the job today. Neither is right, or wrong - but different perceptions of how the music should sound.
Last edited by Wyvern on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Wyvern »

Doc wrote:Well, if everyone is playing pea shooters, you may have balance, albeit balance on a smaller overall scale, hence my query about recordings.
A recording I would recommend is Elgar Symphony No.1/Cockaigne Overture with Barbirolli conducting played by the Philharmonia in 1962 which would be before the arms race started in Britain, so no doubt an F tuba (don't know the tubist?)

http://www.amazon.com/Elgar-Symphony-fl ... F8&s=music

I have got a lot of pleasure from this performance. Really evokes old England!
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Post by windshieldbug »

Neptune wrote:before the arms race started in Britain
Wouldn't it be more suitable to term it a "bells race"? :shock:
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Post by Z-Tuba Dude »

Doc wrote: I'm sure we could argue endlessly until Wagner's intentions are definitively known. What was the common school of thought among Wagner and his contemporaries?
I'm sure if you asked Wagner, he would say that he was peerless, so whatever anyone else was doing, has no relevance to HIS work! :D

Seriously though, the Meistersinger passage has the tuba playing the melody an octave higher than the basses, which would indicate to me that the tuba should be heard as a distinct voice, at that moment in time.
Doc wrote: If we tubists approach all types and forms of music with that "I will be heard/ME/I'm the soloist-prima donna/look at me" attitude, we do a great disservice to the music, the ensemble, the composer, and the listener, and most of all, to ourselves.
We are deluding ourselves if we feel that the tuba is the main show, any more than 5% of the time (mileage may vary by composer/individual work).
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Post by windshieldbug »

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:We are deluding ourselves if we feel that the tuba is the main show, any more than 5% of the time (mileage may vary by composer/individual work).
Prokofiev 5!?
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Post by Wyvern »

Bob1062 wrote:Is there any tradition in England of playing it on the euphonium? Whether by tuba players or euphoniumists. After all, it IS the land of the euphonium.
I believe the Romanza middle movement is sometimes played on euphonium by euphoniumists (similarly with bassoon and cello), but not the whole concerto.

If I am wrong, I am sure a euphonium player will put me right!
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Post by peter birch »

Neptune wrote:
Bob1062 wrote:Is there any tradition in England of playing it on the euphonium? Whether by tuba players or euphoniumists. After all, it IS the land of the euphonium.
I believe the Romanza middle movement is sometimes played on euphonium by euphoniumists (similarly with bassoon and cello), but not the whole concerto.

If I am wrong, I am sure a euphonium player will put me right!
the euphoniun doesn't have enough low notes to play it
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Post by Highams »

Yes indeed, mov. 2 is often played as a Euphonium solo with piano in the UK;

http://www.euph9.freeserve.co.uk/recitals.htm#three

and it sits beautifully on the the instrument. The low descending passage is not a problem for a 4v compensator.

The other 2 movs though really suit the tuba best and are best left to it.

Great posts Pop Korn, I have many vintage recordings of those great names you mention, and I still listen to Dennis Brain's Mozart Concerto recordings frequently. Another fine euponium of the past was Rowland Jones of Black Dyke. He went off and had a celebrated career as an operatic tenor.

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Post by windshieldbug »

Doc wrote:Why would someone play an instrument that doesn't have all the notes?
The same reason I play a horn that doesn't have all right notes... :P
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Post by peter birch »

[quote="Highams"]Yes indeed, mov. 2 is often played as a Euphonium solo with piano in the UK;

http://www.euph9.freeserve.co.uk/recitals.htm#three

and it sits beautifully on the the instrument. The low descending passage is not a problem for a 4v compensator.

The other 2 movs though really suit the tuba best...

does playing the middle movement count as being able to play the whole piece?
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