I'm confused

ScotGJ · Post by **ScotGJ** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:40 am

I know this is a tired subject for many, but after doing numerous searches through the archives I am confused. The new Conn Helleberg (120 s I believe) is reported by many different people to be many different sizes. The "ultimate chart" lists it as a 32.25 mm diameter but I have seen several claims that it is larger. I have had no luck finding manufacture information on any sites.

Does anyone have a definitive diameter size? I would be most grateful because I am in the middle of a major contrast and compare project and size seems to be one of the key variables for my horn and chops.
Many thanks.

Steve Inman · Post by **Steve Inman** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:22 pm

My Conn Helleberg -- probably about 10-15 years old, has about a 32.8mm inside diameter of the cup. My 7B is about 32mm. My Schilke Helleberg is about 31.8mm-ish and I've heard the Schilke Helleberg II is closer to 33mm (can't confirm the last one).

Regards,

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:32 pm

Seng T'san wrote:Do not search for the truth;
only cease to cherish opinions.
do not remain in the dualistic state.
Avoid such pursuits carefully.
If there is even a trace of this and that,
of right and wrong,
the mind-essence will be lost in confusion.

ScotGJ · Post by **ScotGJ** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:32 am

Make no mistake about it; if you do not find it now, you will repeat the same routines for myriad eons, a thousand times over again, following and picking up on objects that attract you.

- Lin Chi (d 867?)

(Thanks for the info Steve)

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:28 am

Not definitive, but one comparison chart puts the

Conn Helleberg = 32.5 mm and the
Conn Helleberg 7B = 31.5 mm

Then there are all the "other maker" Hellebergs... plus the reports that Conn has made very close, but different Hellebergs due to tooling wear, design changes, you name it. The original Hellebergs were made such a long time ago that they may well have even have different usage wear degrees.

Besides, what's a few thousandths among friends?...

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:45 am

And in addition to wear, who is to say that an "original" started out as something else and wasn't modified along the way. Supposedly Mr. August himself had different mouthpieces made for different tubas, and in a hand-made world who really knows what is "real?"

Most of all, everyone fusses about the rim and cup, but I have never seen any discussion about throat and backbore. I have a Wick 1L and a Schilke 67 which both have nominally similar rims, cup i.d.'s and similar depths and profiles, but the throats and backbores are totally different. The Wick 1L is as broad and as "Helleberg" as "Helleberg" tone gets, just a little easier on the lip with a semi-rounded rim, and the Schilke 67, which is supposedly just a bit larger than a "real" Helleberg supposedly in the possession of the Schilke company, is more restrained, but very clear and linear from the mid to upper range.

If I desired a "real" Helleberg, but only wanted to spend a nominal amount, I'd probably go with the current Conn, as who is to say what is or isn't a "true" Helleberg except what can be verified as the man himself having played, and even those differ from mouthpiece to mouthpiece?

ScotGJ · Post by **ScotGJ** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:50 pm

It is a complex and slippery issue. If I lived closer to a metropolotan area I would simply try a bunch of mouthpieces and go with sound and feel. But since I have to order and return mouthpieces in order to play on them, I try to work with a limited number of variables at a time. Having a general idea of different dimensions helps the process. I appreciate everyones input.

I anxiously await my next package of 4 mouthpieces to try out.