What's the difference between a Baritone and a Euphonium?

[windshieldbug]

maybe someone could make one...

When choosing a brass instrument, I wanted something that could combine the grand, martial qualities of the trumpet with the lush, fullness of the horn, I wanted to, but instead I play a baritone...

[XtremeEuph]

This ones getting a little off topic, David Werdens site should settle things




O yeah........................................i better go with the flow of things

[Rick Denney]

Rick "who once spent some time with an early-20's Besson BBb tuba with enharmonic valves, narrow bore, and narrow bell, but it was still a tuba" Denney

Did the enharmonic valve system add a siginificant amount of weight compared to a tradtional valve system?

It was a similar amount of extra tubing compared to a standard three-valve compensation using the Blaikley system. In fact, the so-called enharmonic approach wasn't much different in end result to a Blaikely compensator. The leadpipe entered the third valve, and each combination had its own set of loops, with the third valve being the control valve.

But it was stuffy, stuffy, stuffy. It might have done better with a smaller mouthpiece than what I stuck in it (which was a Wick 1).

Rick "and yes it was heavy" Denney

[imperialbari]

Rick "who once spent some time with an early-20's Besson BBb tuba with enharmonic valves, narrow bore, and narrow bell, but it was still a tuba" Denney

Did the enharmonic valve system add a siginificant amount of weight compared to a tradtional valve system?

It was a similar amount of extra tubing compared to a standard three-valve compensation using the Blaikley system. In fact, the so-called enharmonic approach wasn't much different in end result to a Blaikely compensator. The leadpipe entered the third valve, and each combination had its own set of loops, with the third valve being the control valve.

But it was stuffy, stuffy, stuffy. It might have done better with a smaller mouthpiece than what I stuck in it (which was a Wick 1).

Rick "and yes it was heavy" Denney

There is more tubing in an enharmonic instrument than in a Blaikley system compensator.

The Blaikley system instruments are comparable to a compensating double horn in so far that the Bb side tubing always is used also, when the instrument is lowered by mean of the master- or shift-valve.

The enharmonic instruments are comparable to to full double horns, where the valve loops of the Bb side are not used, when the instrument is lowered by means of the master valve. The lower pitch has its own full-length valve loops. Hence the larger weight of the enharmonic instruments,

There are more observations to be done on these valve systems, but that may end up a bit complicated in my not so good technical English, so I will let them wait for now.

Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre

[windshieldbug]

Klaus,
Is there actually more tubing, or aren't they effectively the same length for the same note (and perhaps one has more bends... )
Mike

[imperialbari]

Klaus,
Is there actually more tubing, or aren't they effectively the same length for the same note (and perhaps one has more bends... )
Mike

To understand the compensating- and enharmonic-systems one has to view the valved brasses in a perspective not applied by all brass players. For many, if not most, players the valve buttons just are something pushed to give the wanted notes. Which buttons to push are read in a fingering table. New fingerings cannot be established from a basic understanding of the valve system, because that also takes a profound understanding of our diatonic and chromatic scale system.

When I once told of my free scale training system for low brasses, a member of this board more or less said: Buls***! Buy a tuba and a tuxedo. Then go out earning some money!

Basically with the euph as the sample:

A euph with the 2nd valve activated is a euph in A.

A euph with the 1st valve activated is a euph in Ab.

A euph with the 3rd valve activated is a euph in G.

So far so well. But as any euph lower than Bb needs a longer set of valve slides than a euph in Bb, any combination of more than 1 valve activated simultaneously by principle is a problem. But it only gets critical, when 1+3 are involved.

Hence the, in a double sense, fourth valve, which takes the comp euph into a virtual 3 valve F tuba. When activating the 4th valve, the 3 first valve loops of the “openâ€

[windshieldbug]

Thank you Klaus, I see now: more tubes, but the same over-all length!

[stardude82]

Sorry to be late to the party but...

[stardude82]

In my understanding it should actually go like this, if you look at 2 extremes of the market, Kanstul and Amati-Cerveny, in an ideal world, things would fall out like this:

Tenorhorn (<.500) = Bass Cornet
Generally mostly conical bore, 8-11' bell, comperable to a peashooter trombone

Baritone (.500-.565) = Bass Trumpet
Mostly straight bore, 10-12' bell, tenor trombone

Euphonium (>.565) = Bass Fluglehorn
Mostly conical bore, 11-14' bell, bass trombone

All odd bore/bell front horns would be abolished and there will be much rejoicing.

Kanstul has piston versions of these horns, you should check out what they call each instrument. It falls inline with my estimation.

/Won't dare go into where you measure the bore or metal thickness.

[tubiker]

The folks from the UK et al must get a real giggle out of the Americans chasing their own tails over the "baritone" thing.

Yeh

I haven't found a quote for a baritone yet...maybe someone could make one...

A Baritone is a Euph with asthma...............

Andrew M