CC Tuba..Only way to go in the pro world?

[passion4tuba]

What is it about CC tubas that make them the better choice over BB flats? Are there many bb flat pro players out there?

[windshieldbug]

You may well ask the same about C trumpets.

I think that if you are, in fact, that level of player, the actual key of the horn makes no difference at all. Only the sound and facility that you (and the people you work with) are looking for.

[djwesp]

What is it about CC tubas that make them the better choice over BB flats? Are there many bb flat pro players out there?

I play an Eb as my high horn and the bassoon players, concertmasters, and conductors at the last two auditions didn't know I was playing the "wrong key" for orchestra.

If you can play it and play it well, what is the matter?

Some of the best musicians you will ever hear, aren't playing on the nicest horns.

[Steve Inman]

http://www.jaxsymphony.org/orchestra/mu ... nkins.html

Here's one. But in the USA, the numbers are small compared with CC players. In many German-speaking European countries, the situation is reportedly different, with F tubas getting more use than they would in the US for more literature, and then the BBb being the "big tuba" when required.

That's what I've always heard ....

Cheers,

[MartyNeilan]

Plus the CC tuba is a brighter thus can cut threw the string section when it needs to.

I know; those yorkbrunners and 2165's are bright enough to make your ears bleed.

[Wyvern]

What is it about CC tubas that make them the better choice over BB flats? Are there many bb flat pro players out there?

Well, there are plenty of BBb pro players in Germany, Austria and Russian.

I think the use of CC against BBb is mainly tradition. However, as a Brit who started out on BBb, then played Eb, before getting a CC. I would say that in my experience the CC is probably the best overall for orchestral use where the range covered is much greater than usually encountered in bands. A BBb is at its best for the low register music, but not so good for the high (note the Germans use an F for that). The Eb can cover the whole range with no problem, but looses weight in the lower register (although only really noticed once you have played a CC). While I would say the CC is a good compromise - almost as good as the BBb for the low register, while easier to control in the high register.

So take your choice. It is a lot down to personal preference and what music you play. A professional musician can produce a good performance on any pitch of tuba.

[ASTuba]

Years ago, many good quality CC tubas were more readily available than BBb tubas in this country. This can be described by Arnold Jacobs' use of the CC tuba in Chicago, or by many other factors.

The argument against BBb as a pro tuba is null and void now. I'd take a Fafner BBb tuba over many CC tubas being produced today.

[ASTuba]

I'd take a Fafner BBb tuba over many CC tubas being produced today.

But what do you play now, Andy?

I own a CC tuba, simply because a) couldn't find a Fafner BBb at the time I was looking b) I'm used to a CC now.

I didn't put the "I'm only going to look at CC tubas" on my limitations when buying my newest tuba.

[Wyvern]

They are shorter and thus more responsive than a BBb, but they still can produce a big contrabass tuba sound.

I certainly found that true! When I was looking for a big tuba, I wanted rotary valves, but was completely open to either a BBb, or CC (as I already had Eb's for the high stuff). I chose the 6/4 CC Neptune over an exceptionally good 5/4 BBb Rudolf Meinl and a good Fafner BBb entirely because I found the CC more responsive.

[Rick Denney]

I think it doesn't have anything to do with the whether Bb or C is more responsive, better in tune, or whatever. In a case like yours, it has to do with politics and honest self-assessment.

Politics

When you go to college to major in tuba performance, you will be expected to play a C tuba, and later to add an F to your repertoire. I suspect few professors will actually demand that you do this. But if you don't, you will have to measure up to a higher standard, because they will think you are resisting out of laziness and being lazy is a fatal flaw in any prospective pro.

Do you really want to have to live up to that higher standard? Do you really believe in your Bb and Eb tubas so strongly that you are happy to start out behind? Or are you just used to them?

There are Bb tubas that are competitive with great C tubas out there. But the converse is also true: Many C tubas are as good as the very best Bb tubas. Thus, you are not handicapping yourself musically by switching to C, but you are handicapping yourself politically by staying with the Bb.

Self-Assessment and Being Honest

A professional tuba player who has what it takes to succeed will have no issue playing any of the four pitches of instruments, or any arbitrary pitch as needed. Bobo had a G (or was it D?) tuba made for a specific application. He didn't worry about fingerings--as a pro he did what it took for that to not be a limitation in that application. If switching from Bb to C is beyond your skills, then you should strongly consider a different professional objective. That doesn't mean you shouldn't study music, it just means that shouldn't study it with the intent of being a professional musician. If making the switch isn't beyond your skills, but you just don't want to do it, then honestly assess whether you are disciplined enough to engage a line of work where you must spend many hours unsupervised, accountable only to yourself, in your private practice room for every hour you spend "on the clock".

Those who perform professionally on Bb, such as James Jenkins, don't do it because they were too lazy to learn C fingerings. In fact, I'll bet you dollars to donuts Mr. Jenkins can play C without a backward glance. Such people play Bb because a particularly special Bb instrument came into their possession, one so uniquely consistent with their artistic objectives that they couldn't consider something different. For that to be true, you must 1.) have highly refined artistic objectives, and 2.) be able to execute technique well enough so that you can achieve those objectives better with one great tuba versus another great tuba. You have to earn the right to buck the trend.

Being able to play an Eb without anyone realizing it isn't good enough. Being able to play the music such that it's they best they've ever heard--that's the goal. You pick the tuba that helps you achieve that goal most efficiently.

Now, for amateurs and hobbyists, and that includes tuba players who, say, teach band while playing in local high-end community bands, it makes no sense to endure the much higher price of owning a C. For hobbyists and amateurs, they only have to please themselves. If you think a C is more responsive than a Bb, then it will be. In fact, I generally think so (though I've played darn few C BAT's that were more responsive than my Bb Holton). But I won't put in the time needed to become proficient with it, and I won't pay the 10-25 grand it would require to find a C BAT that is better than my Bb Holton. None of that matters when you declare your purpose to become a pro.

Rick "who thinks wanting to be a pro requires versatility and serious commitment" Denney

[djwesp]

When you go to college to major in tuba performance, you will be expected to play a C tuba, and later to add an F to your repertoire. I suspect few professors will actually demand that you do this. But if you don't, you will have to measure up to a higher standard, because they will think you are resisting out of laziness and being lazy is a fatal flaw in any prospective pro.

Do you really want to have to live up to that higher standard? Do you really believe in your Bb and Eb tubas so strongly that you are happy to start out behind? Or are you just used to them?

Tsk, tsk.


These times are a changin my friend, these times are a changin. More and more people play on instruments that sound like tubas and less like pregnant Euphoniums.

The players that define the new era of tuba playing are on Effers. The resistance and politics of "what key you play" are going away and being replaced with how well you play.

ØYSTEIN, Sheridan, professors... are accepting of almost any key these days. If you sound good, people don't care. Most people can't even tell unless they know the make and model of the horn anyway.

[tubabernie]

I thought when we went to this new format of tube net we would get rid of these CC/BBb, and the F/Eb post. Play on what sounds good. If anything you should know how to play all keyed tubas. I have never heard anyone have the best audition that a committee has ever heard just to turn them away cause the keyed tuba they played. Make the adjustments, play the horn, and please, lets get pasted these stupid post.

[TubaRay]

I thought when we went to this new format of tube net we would get rid of these CC/BBb, and the F/Eb post. Play on what sounds good. If anything you should know how to play all keyed tubas. I have never heard anyone have the best audition that a committee has ever heard just to turn them away cause the keyed tuba they played. Make the adjustments, play the horn, and please, lets get pasted these stupid post.

I think we're just stuck with these stupid post(sic).

[windshieldbug]

Unfortunately, there are persons who are chronologically challenged who have have the need to initially absorb this information regardless of how reiterative it may be to the denizen here.

[Wyvern]

I thought when we went to this new format of tube net we would get rid of these CC/BBb, and the F/Eb post. Play on what sounds good. If anything you should know how to play all keyed tubas. I have never heard anyone have the best audition that a committee has ever heard just to turn them away cause the keyed tuba they played. Make the adjustments, play the horn, and please, lets get pasted these stupid post.

I think we're just stuck with these stupid post(sic).

Sorry, I cannot really agree. There are new people joining TubeNet all the time and why should they not ask questions which have been asked before? TubeNet old-timers do not have to read again, or participate, but if questions could not be repeated, TubeNet would just turn into an archive and die

Anyway, the differing pitches of tuba available and which to use is one of the most confusing issues for new Tubists. I think the original poster's question was quite inteligent and understandable.

[tubabernie]

I guess what my biggest frustration is the people on here the colg the net with junk, the ones that post b.s. It makes the people that really care and want to talk about real tuba stuff not want to be here. And if you would rather have the junk posters then so be it and say goodbye to the people that really care. See how fast it will die then.

Bernie "I am getting way to old for this" Williams

[Wyvern]

I guess what my biggest frustration is the people on here the colg the net with junk, the ones that post b.s. It makes the people that really care and want to talk about real tuba stuff not want to be here. And if you would rather have the junk posters then so be it and say goodbye to the people that really care. See how fast it will die then.

Bernie "I am getting way to old for this" Williams

No, we don't want junk posts on here! Some of the threads get really stupid at which point I promptly unsubscribe and ignore thread from then on. But my point was this is not one of those junk posts. It is quite reasonable to want to know why one pitch of tuba is preferred by professionals to another. After all, we are here to discuss tubas. Even if a topic has been discussed many times before, a new point, or angle may come to light. Peoples views also change over time.

Jonathan "who two-years ago could not see the need for anything but an Eb"

[TubaRay]

I guess what my biggest frustration is the people on here the colg the net with junk, the ones that post b.s. It makes the people that really care and want to talk about real tuba stuff not want to be here. And if you would rather have the junk posters then so be it and say goodbye to the people that really care. See how fast it will die then.
Bernie "I am getting way to old for this" Williams

Good point!

[TubaRay]

I thought when we went to this new format of tube net we would get rid of these CC/BBb, and the F/Eb post. Play on what sounds good. If anything you should know how to play all keyed tubas. I have never heard anyone have the best audition that a committee has ever heard just to turn them away cause the keyed tuba they played. Make the adjustments, play the horn, and please, lets get pasted these stupid post.

I think we're just stuck with these stupid post(sic).

Sorry, I cannot really agree. There are new people joining TubeNet all the time and why should they not ask questions which have been asked before? TubeNet old-timers do not have to read again, or participate, but if questions could not be repeated, TubeNet would just turn into an archive and die

Anyway, the differing pitches of tuba available and which to use is one of the most confusing issues for new Tubists. I think the original poster's question was quite inteligent and understandable.

I guess my new career as a comedian doesn't look too promising....

[windshieldbug]

I guess my new career as a comedian doesn't look too promising...

Well, ya know, why do people post their car in a driveway and drive their car on a postway...