Eb tuba's role in the brass band

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:52 pm

Hey all you brass banders out there (especially you brits over there),

What is the role of the Eb tuba in the brass band? I mean should I try to keep a more compact sound with a smaller mouthpiece and maybe a smaller horn like a Besson 983, letting the BBbers have the broad sound and provide the blanket for the band sound to build on. Or should I let my sound open up more with a larger mouthpiece like a Helleberg and try to blend in a bit more with them? (FYI, I play 981-ish Boosey & Hawkes Imperial with the big bell.) My sound still won't be as big as the big horns anyway. I am just curious what other's think about this if you indeed even worry about it....

I know I asked once before what the standard mouthepice for Ebs is and many of you seemed to say the DW3.
ken k

Chriss2760 · Post by **Chriss2760** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:18 pm

IMHO, the Eb horns perform at least three distinct functions within the bass section:
-They add a clarity and focus, (even punch, if you will,) to the broader but less focused sound of the BBb's.
-They are used in smaller ensemble sections of a piece to express a lighter sound than the heavy basses.
- They blend with the BBb's to create a broad spectrum bass sound, in much the same manner as the four-part french horn voicing does for their section.
With these points in mind, it may be advantageous to discuss within the Eb section who is going to cover the 'blending/bass voice balancing' function of a piece, and who will do the 'clarity' job. I would expect that the different roles may require different mouthpieces, but perhaps not.

GC · Post by GC » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:33 pm

I've also heard their function described as providing a "transitional" tone between the euphoniums and contrabasses.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:40 am

Chriss2760 wrote:IMHO, the Eb horns perform at least three distinct functions within the bass section:
-They add a clarity and focus, (even punch, if you will,) to the broader but less focused sound of the BBb's.
-They are used in smaller ensemble sections of a piece to express a lighter sound than the heavy basses.
- They blend with the BBb's to create a broad spectrum bass sound, in much the same manner as the four-part french horn voicing does for their section.

As one of those Brits, I would agree with this description.

If you have not played in a brass band, I would say consider the Eb bass part like the top/solo bass line in a concert band. Mostly you are with the BBb basses, but sometimes acting as a lower euphonium voice.

For sound, fairly broad, and warm sound, generally in a rather singing style.

For mouthpieces - the most common used are the Bach 24AW and Denis Wick 3L, both of which provide the right sort of sound. I personally, also like using the Mike Finn MF2.

I hope that helps - enjoy you banding!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:29 pm

OTOH, if your director isn't a tuba player, he probably thinks that "a tuba's a tuba" and a 20J playing the Eb part will be just peachy with him.

...and the cornets will sound like trumpets because the players will be using "long model" American cornets with stock Bach mouthpieces.

...and the alto horns will all be played with French horn mouthpieces and adapters.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:50 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:OTOH, if your director isn't a tuba player, he probably thinks that "a tuba's a tuba" and a 20J playing the Eb part will be just peachy with him.

...and the cornets will sound like trumpets because the players will be using "long model" American cornets with stock Bach mouthpieces.

...and the alto horns will all be played with French horn mouthpieces and adapters.

... and you're probably typing this on an Apple, too! (jk

)

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:13 pm

Can an Apple II even access the internet?

Anyway, you forgot the bell-front baritone horns with the 12C mouthpieces, playing the baritone AND euphonium parts...

-Eric

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:50 pm

DP wrote: Oh, come on, Chuck. While tuba-specific idiocy of music directors may be considered by some to be a right, and presumed by many (tuba players anyways) to be a given, it is a LOT less likely with a brass band.

Come on up here and sit in with the local band and tell me if you think a King 1241 with a 21.5" bell has the appropriate Eb tuba sound.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:17 pm

This is going off on a tangent, but: How much do you think mouthpiece choice can put a generic B-flat in an E-flat role? (assuming E-flat role is reasonably well defined ... which might not be the case.) For example, a Yamaha 67B4 greatly reduces the fundamental in the tone. Low notes still play easily; but most of the fundamental is gone. Or, even better, has anyone successfully tried it? Unfortunately, something like the 67B4 does not make it any easier to play on a B-flat the higher notes that can be played on an E-flat.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:23 pm

SplatterTone wrote:This is going off on a tangent, but: How much do you think mouthpiece choice can put a generic B-flat in an E-flat role?

Mouthpiece (& bore) : Quite a bit

After all, if it were just length an F horn would sound exactly the same as an F tuba...

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:42 pm

And if you need to cover a bass trombone part with your 4/4 size, use the 66B.
(I'm half way serious here.)

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:23 pm

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:52 pm

imperialbari wrote:The very short take is, that the Eb tuba mostly is a kind of solo bass, but it is mostly used as the carrier of the 8â€™ bass line, whereas the BBb bass carries the 16â€™ line.

Klaus, I have never heard the expression 8â€™ and 16' bass line. To what do these numbers refer?

PS I also miss Jay Bertolet from this forum

imperialbari · Post by **imperialbari** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:03 pm

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:30 am

Thanks Klaus! Yes that makes some sense.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:58 pm

When I have to do the octave parts in my community band on a BBb, I use a Bach 18 so the round bowl will accentuate the upper overtones better, and play as lightly as possible in the context of the particular piece.

Keeping all of the above in mind, even in a concert band it is much better if the upper parts are played by an Eb bass. Last year we played the accompaniment to a euph solo performed by one of the university music majors. I was assigned the upper octave tuba parts. The only way I could get it to blend and not stick out of the section or get in the way of the euph was to use an Eb tuba, and I'm sorry to say that since I don't own one, I had to actually go hunting for one until I found one forgotten about in the basement of my undergrad across town. The University claimed not to have any (but they didn't let me scrounge in their basement, either!) But it was worth it, as it provided all the above mentioned, and stayed out of the way of the euph solo as well. Fortunately I have a small shank Wick 2, and while not optimum (I wish I could have had a Wick 3), it did what I needed it to with the Eb.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:42 pm

imperialbari wrote:The 8â€™ and 16â€™ terms come from the organ and recorder worlds. They refer to the length of the pipe/recorder able to play the foundation note of C two ledger lines below the bass staff.

Funny, after never having heard this before, it was well explained on the British Channel 4 TV programme this Saturday "How Music Works".

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsi ... /bass.html

Its a shame the programme is not on-line.