titanium vs stainless steel

[bighorn]

Hello, can anyone explain to me the differences between these 2 materials? I am interested in G&W Taku. Which should i get?? titanium or stainless steel??
IF u have any experience with this, please reply.. If you are using G&W taku with conn 56j, please comment too..
THanks!

[quinterbourne]

Hello, can anyone explain to me the differences between these 2 materials?... titanium or stainless steel??

$245

From the G&W website:

"Both of these materials create a unique sound and response that surpasses that of brass. Brass is a very soft material, and absorbs vibrations resulting in a tone that can often get muddy, be difficult to project, and make articulations seem non-existent. Stainless steel and titanium project vibrations into the instrument giving the player more control. This makes it easier to produce the sound you desire, and make great music."

I can't find anything on their site that explains differences (if any) between stainless steel and titanium. Honestly, I think the only reason to get a titanium mouthpiece is to tell all your friends that you have one so maybe they'll think you're cool (but you're not).

[djwesp]

from playing on it, it seems like the titanium just magnifies the qualities of SS just a little bit more.

It is more durable, crisper articulations, the mouthpiece rang in the horn (which i didn't really like), and had similar lip feel to SS.

[pwhitaker]

[quote="quinterbourne... I can't find anything on their site that explains differences (if any) between stainless steel and titanium. Honestly, I think the only reason to get a titanium mouthpiece is to tell all your friends that you have one so maybe they'll think you're cool (but you're not).[/quote]

I resemble that remark.
I just had Ivan build me an oversize custom titanium version of one of my large mpc's (36 mm) and it is - in the vernacular of today's callow youth - awesome.
There is more edge in the lower registers, crisper articulations as mentioned above, and incredible response at even the the most minimal of airstreams. - Worth every penny - and there were a lot of them.

[KevinMadden]

Speaking as a poor college student... I did find that the titanium G&W's do have more of the characteristics of the SS models ( as opposed to brass mouthpieces). and they weigh like 4 oz. as opposed to 3 Lbs, which is eeriely cool. but i just couldn't (and still can't) justify spending that much on a mouthpiece when the a stainless mouthpiece is less than half and performs only marginally less.

[Tubaryan12]

Hey Rick:

Titanium vs Stainless steel vs Brass - Please give us the hardness of all 3 and their ability to resist that nick on the rim that, of course, renders any mouthpiece unusable .

[quinterbourne]

I would strongly suggest the Sidey SSH.

[ubertuba]

but since I have no way of testing it

Did you know that G&W and LOUD both have trial period deals? Both companies allow you to return any mouthpiece in new condition for a refund within 14 days if you don't like it or want to try something different. You do have to pay a 10$ restocking fee, but it's still a pretty sweet deal IMO. You could try the LM-10 and Taku at the same time to compare them, for the end price of only 10$ (unless you wanted both ).

This is how I'm going choose my Christmas present this year - order an LM-7, LM-5, and G&W Alan Baer and keep my favorite!

Hey bighorn, I play a 56J too! If you find a mpc that works great, let's hear about it!

[Rick Denney]

Hey Rick:

Titanium vs Stainless steel vs Brass - Please give us the hardness of all 3 and their ability to resist that nick on the rim that, of course, renders any mouthpiece unusable .

With titanium it depends significantly on the alloy.

Commercially Pure (CP) titanium is not that strong. Yield strength is 20,300 psi, and ultimate strength is 31,900 psi. Stiffness is 16,800 ksi (ksi = 1000 psi). Brinnell hardness is 60.

Mix a little aluminum and vanadium in it, though, and it gets strong in a hurry. 3Al2.5V titanium yields at 72,500 psi and breaks at 89,900 psi. Brinnell hardness is 256. But it's actually a bit less stiff with a modulus of elasticity of 14,900 ksi.

70-30 brass is less strong but more tough that CP titanium, with a yield strength of 14,000 psi and an ultimate strength of 44,500 psi. This is worked brass, not annealed, and I don't know how work-hardened it is. If you annealed it, it would be less strong but elongation at failure would be greater. It's about as hard as CP titanium, but much less hard than 3Al2.5V titanium alloy. Stiffness is very similar to titanium at 16,000 ksi.

Stainless steel also depends on alloy. Typical medical-grade stainless (Type 316) yields at 34,800 psi and breaks at 79,800 psi. It's much stiffer than titanium or brass, with a modulus of elasticity at 29,000 ksi. It's harder than brass and CP titanium, but not as hard (or as strong) as high-strength titanium alloys.

I don't know what Ivan uses--maybe he'll tell us.

From an acoustic point of view, all these materials are highly elastic below their yield strengths, so any notion of a mouthpiece damping vibration makes no sense to me. The mass of the mouthpiece might change it's resonance, though I can't see how that matters. But they all ring efficiently when you ring them like a bell.

Titanium is the lightest, at .163 pounds/cubic inch. Steel is heavier at .289 pounds/cubic inch. Brass is the densest at .308 pounds/cubic inch. Their specific stiffness varies, with titanium and steel being not that far different and brass being a little over half as stiff pound-for-pound. That means a heavy brass mouthpiece won't be as stiff as an equally heavy steel or titanium mouthpiece. A titanium mouthpiece that is the same weight as a steel mouthpiece will be about as stiff, but it will be a lot chunkier because it's only a little over half the density, and it could potentially be very much stronger because of that chunkiness. It also means that when the pendulum swings the other way and the fad goes to ultralight mouthpieces, the titanium mouthpiece can be very light and still have adequate strength for durability, assuming the machinists can turn them down that thin. Titanium is the most difficult to machine of the three.

In terms of durability, the stainless steel will be best unless Ivan is using a high-strength titanium alloy.

Given that the mouthpiece's ring is fully damped by the gooey face pressed against it, I suspect that all of the differences between the materials would be mighty hard to quantify in any objective way. Overcoming placebo effect to study the results objectively would be a daunting challenge, but in music, placebo effect counts.

I personally like the feel and durability of stainless steel, and think the right alloy of titanium would do just as well. Steel feels like gold-plating on my lips.

Stainless steel and titanium are also the most inert of the options, and can really be scrubbed to keep them clean.

Rick "we report, you decide" Denney

[Philip Jensen]

Here's what I said in an earlier thread:

In terms of slipperyness, they are very similar, but I'd give a little edge to titanium. However, there is a big difference when you first put them to your lips. The titanium is almost instantly warm, it takes longer for the SS to warm up. (though the SS is still much better than brass in this respect) That being said, I prefer the Titanium, as it is very comfortable on the lips.

At the Army conference last winter, I compared back to back the Bayamo in SS vs Ti on a King BBb and the Diablo (SS and Ti) on a Wilson Eb. For both models I clearly preferred the Ti version. They just played easier, and with more focus.

I have since then bounced the mouthpiece off the concrete floor in my basement (yes it bounced). It hit on the rim. There were only the smallest of visible scrathes. I could not feel any scrathes with my lips though. I'm not going to test this with my SS mouthpiece for comparison - nor will I repeat the "experiment" with my Ti mouthpiece

[Donn]

What is the best SS mouthpiece for the $$$? I've heard several people say the LM-10 Tommie Johnson model, but since I have no way of testing it, I need some real experienced people that have tried a lot of them to help me out.

Look at this thread: viewtopic.php?t=18382 , where you'll find detailed description of that mouthpiece in particular. For sure it's "the best" for someone, could be "the worst" for others, but at any rate I'd say it isn't a lot like most other mouthpieces.

I like the looks of it, myself, and I suggest that you go ahead and get one. I think you'll go back and forth between loving it and hating it (so an evaluation trial period is irrelevant), eventually lose faith in yourself and start drinking too much, and only later in life (if you make it through this period) you'll realize its real worth (which I don't know, so don't ask.)

[Tubaryan12]

Technical stuff that answered my question

Thanks, sir.