Will there ever be any more American Eb's?

[MikeMason]

The king 2341 isn't going anywhere.It's the bread and butter high school tuba in their lineup.The CC could be gone anytime the bean counters who don't care about music take a hard look at it's profitability(or lack thereof).King's lac.4 valve euph is around 1700-1800.Not real likely that an EEb tuba would be less than that.I know your just musing but you're better off to just get a vintage one and have a valve job done.

[Allen]

I agree with Robert Coulter and Mike Mason.

I don't see any reason why Eb tubas should sell for any less money than F tubas, unless the Eb tubas are cheaply made and sold in huge quantities.

An alternative question might be: Will there ever again be a large mass of people wanting to play (or told to play) Eb tubas? I think you know the answer.

Besids, it's not so bad that there is a category of tubas available cheap on the used market. Even with some money spent on a bit of overhauling or fixing up, the old Eb tubas cost a lot less than good F tubas. [Not that I wouldn't mind having a nice new F tuba...]

Cheers,
Allen

[Dan Schultz]

I think Eb tubas fell by the wayside just about the same time I started playing back in 1956. There haven't been very many US Eb horns made since then so why would the manufacturers start now? Beginning band teachers wouldn't use them, anyway.

[windshieldbug]

I really like old Eb's, but no one makes them any more. It seems like there could be a good market for them, using parts that already being made

We could play them right alongside all the peashooter trumpets and trombones that will make a surprising comeback, too!

[Chuck(G)]

One might posit that the US band movement in public schools (outside of Texas anyway) is bound to die off. Realistically, outside of military affairs and football games, who even listens to band music any more?

Outside of Texas, band programs are in general decline, particularly in those districts where NCLB means real money.

One middle school band director I know of says that he prefers to use bari sax for his bands instead of tuba--apparently it doesn't have the stigma of the dull fat kid that tuba does and there's no problem recruiting one.

As far as Eb bass goes, most of the retired school band directors that I know of are openly scornful of the animal as in "Who plays Eb tuba anymore?" The younger band directors aren't even aware of its existence.

[scottmendoker]

hmmmm........ maybe yes, maybe no. Kanstul, with the help and encouragement of Lee Stofer, has put together a 5 valve CC tuba. It's their stock CC with the screw-rim bell. They have developed a brand new rotor - more direct air flow - that Lee has JUST finished placing on the instrument. It's being sent - today - back to Kanstul for buffing and silver plating with the idea that it will be ready for the Army Tuba Conference. My limited involvement is that I've agreed to play it when I solo with the Army Band the Saturday nite of the Conference. Plus, I'm still looking for THE ideal quintet-sized CC tuba.........

Will this lead to a Kanstul EEb? Can't say - but if enough people like this horn, who knows?? Be sure to stop by Lee's booth to play this new and potentially very exciting addition to the Kanstul line. (and track me down to say "hi". More than likely, I'll be at Steve Dillon's or Lee's booth)

Scott Mendoker
Philadelphia Brass

[Chuck(G)]

[quote="scottmendoker"]Will this lead to a Kanstul EEb? Can't say - but if enough people like this horn, who knows?? Be sure to stop by Lee's booth to play this new and potentially very exciting addition to the Kanstul line. (and track me down to say "hi". More than likely, I'll be at Steve Dillon's or Lee's booth)

Realistically, how many tuba players today own a Kanstul tuba (outside of the GG contrabugle)? Less than one percent? What would be the financial incentive to introduce something of limited appeal that would be overlooked by the tuba community at large? I wonder if Zig Kanstul regrets developing a compensating euphonium...

[Chadtuba]

As far as Eb bass goes, most of the retired school band directors that I know of are openly scornful of the animal as in "Who plays Eb tuba anymore?" The younger band directors aren't even aware of its existence.

I'm one of those young band directors and would love to get my hands on a couple of Eefers, one for me and one for my class room. I've got a young lady in my 6th grade band who took home a tuba last night to start the transition from euph to tuba and would have much prefered to give her an Eb, but we do what we can.

If I could come up with the scratch I almost think that I'd trade my BBb for one of the nice Besson EEb's like Sheridan plays, but who knows when of if that'll ever happen.

[Chuck(G)]

Not that I disagree (or agree) with the assertion...I simply would like to understand what evidence exists.

I'm going to do my best to avoid this hot political potato by saying that one need only "google', for example:

http://www.nea.org/esea/nclbstories/curricstories.html

If you wish, contact me off-list and I'll tell you about my own personal experience in filling the crevasse--er gap.

I don't want this thread killed, so I'm not going to say any more on the subject.

[Bandmaster]

I just had a wild and crazy idea. Maybe some you tech guys could tell me if I am totally out to lunch or just maybe this could work?

I have an old 3 valve Keefer EEb tuba that I like the sound of but the valves have seen better days. I have always had in the back of my mind to maybe have a 4 valve set transplant onto it. Today I just happened to be looking at tubas on the Kanstul website and I saw someting that caught my eye. So here is my question:

Could the valve section (.689 bore), leadpipe and tuning slide assembly from the Kanstul CTU 902/4C tuba be easily transplanted on an old EEb bugle? What makes this ideas nice is that the tuning slide would be on the upside right were your left hand would be naturally. The only part that would have to be custom made (other than trimming to length the slides on each valve) would be the 90 degree bow that comes off the end of the tuning slide and around to connect to the bugle. I am just dreaming or could this actually work? Would this be an fair easy transplant?




Most of the old EEb tubas have a similar bugle configuration, so could be be a new "quick fix" for old eefers?

[Chuck(G)]

Most of the old EEb tubas have a similar bugle configuration, so could be be a new "quick fix" for old eefers?

Interesting, yes, Dave, but neither quick nor cheap, I think.

[Bandmaster]

It seems the "Edit" button is gone so we can no longer edit our posts????

I was going to add that Kanstul would readily sell these valve section and other parts, so it could be available to anyone for this type of conversion. Just a thought, wild, cray or whatever...

[Chuck(G)]

I miss the edit button, too!

Has Kanstul gotten religion and decided to sell whole complete valve sections? The last time I asked, they want to sell them piecemeal; a piston, a top cap, a bottom cap, etc. It ceased being financially interesting at that point.

But when I look at that BBb valve section and try to figure out the wrap (particularly on the 2nd valve, I get the cold sweats just thinking about it.

I'd think it'd be a much easier undertaking using a Yamaha 621 valve section.

[Dan Schultz]

'bout anything is possible.... given enough time and money. Or should I have said time and parts?

http://thevillagetinker.com/pan_america ... ersion.htm

[Bandmaster]

'bout anything is possible.... given enough time and money. Or should I have said time and parts?

http://thevillagetinker.com/pan_america ... ersion.htm

But wouldn't my idea be a lot easier than splicing two 3 valve sections together and custom making the tuning slides?

[ASTuba]

From my time dealing with Kanstul, they're thoughts on just selling a valve set would be:

"That's a tuba we can't make"

They may do it, but it wouldn't be cheap.

My concern would be that to trim a Kanstul 4 valve BBb valve set to Eb would be impossible. You'd be better off with buying a valve cluster, a lot of .689" bore tubing, and a bunch of crooks, and measuring, cutting, and fabricating your own set.

That's the only way grafting really will look best. If you try to slap something else on there, it will look simply like someone slapped something on there.*


* There are exceptions to this rule...

[Dan Schultz]

'bout anything is possible.... given enough time and money. Or should I have said time and parts?

http://thevillagetinker.com/pan_america ... ersion.htm

But wouldn't my idea be a lot easier than splicing two 3 valve sections together and custom making the tuning slides?

It depends. I had the parts and all I needed to add was labor. The parts for the conversion you are talking about might cost $1,500.

[Bandmaster]

From my time dealing with Kanstul, they're thoughts on just selling a valve set would be:

"That's a tuba we can't make"

They may do it, but it wouldn't be cheap.

Well maybe I think that way because I know Zig, I host his website on my server. So I can swing a trade for parts and service against the web hosting bill. I did that on my 3 valve Kanstul contrabass bugle. Zig took out all the dents, buffed it, soldered up bad joints and put in three new pistons in trade for two years worth of web hosting. Well, that two years is now up...

My concern would be that to trim a Kanstul 4 valve BBb valve set to Eb would be impossible. You'd be better off with buying a valve cluster, a lot of .689" bore tubing, and a bunch of crooks, and measuring, cutting, and fabricating your own set.

Who mentioned a BBb valve set? Go back and look at the photo I posted.... it is the Kanstul CC 3/4 Tuba. The BBb tuning slide is not the same and would not work in the fashion I discribed. But the CC tuba slides are laid out different and I think they might just work. Maybe I'll ask Zig at the NAMM Show next week.

[ASTuba]

Who mentioned a BBb valve set? Go back and look at the photo I posted.... it is the Kanstul CC 3/4 Tuba. The BBb tuning slide is not the same and would not work in the fashion I discribed. But the CC tuba slides are laid out different and I think they might just work. Maybe I'll ask Zig at the NAMM Show next week.

Ok, so sorry that I thought it was the BBb not the CC, but still. You've got to take a valveset and chop a slew of tubing off of it. It's not going to line up, no matter what your eyes think. Something will not work when you get everything in front of you. Better off buying the piston block, a bunch of .689" bore tubing and crooks, and make a valveset that looks original to the instrument.

A picture, for an example of a nicely finished project similar to this: [img]
http://www.dillonmusic.com/HeleoCart/Im ... /95041.jpg[/img]

Hope this clarifies what I was trying to say.

[iiipopes]

Oh, yeah! You mean Matt's prototype for the 56J!

BTW: the link has the code [/img] at the end which must be deleted from the cut and paste for the link to work.

Hey, Sean -- please give us our edit buttttttttton back!