Sizes?

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:48 pm

The gist is: It's all relative within each maker's line. There is no absolute.
Within the tuba community, in general, there is probably some consistency. The Miraphone 186 could serve as the standard 4/4. If it's significantly smaller than that, it's 3/4. If it's somewhat larger, it's 5/4. And if it's a lot larger, it's 6/4.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:00 pm

SplatterTone wrote:The gist is: It's all relative within each maker's line. There is no absolute.
Within the tuba community, in general, there is probably some consistency. The Miraphone 186 could serve as the standard 4/4. If it's significantly smaller than that, it's 3/4. If it's somewhat larger, it's 5/4. And if it's a lot larger, it's 6/4.

I believe that is about the best rundown I have seen on this subject. I would consider this a good "yardstick" for measuring tubas.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:25 pm

This system seems sort of vague and not very standardize

Yep. When in doubt, quote the instrument pitch (b-flat, c, etc.), bore and bell size. That will pretty much nail it down.

patentnonsense · Post by **patentnonsense** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:15 am

Does bell size really matter? Once the bell flares out beyond triple or so the bell throat, i have a hard time believing that it's acoustically very important. The helpful article linked above points out that many American tubas are disproportionate, i.e. have 6/4 bells on 4/4 tubing.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:02 am

I have found measuring the circumference where the bell joins the bottom bow appears to be a good guide.

For example on the Miraphone 188 and B&S PT-20, both 4/4 size that is around about 15". On a 5/4 PT-6 it is 17" and on a 6/4 Mel Culbertson Neptune it is 19". It would be interesting to know how other models slot in using those measurements.

That throat of the bell size seems to have a greater effect on the resulting tonal sound than the bell diameter.

However these are all CC tubas. For other pitches the size criteria are no doubt different. For example on a full size Eb (e.g. on my Melton and Besson tubas) that measurement is 12", although these instruments could be considered 4/4, or 5/4 in size.

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:55 am

duckskiff wrote:Someone should compile a list of this measurement on various tubas of known size and see if it works all the time.

I was rather hoping other TubeNeters would measure their own tubas, so we can compile a list.

For example, I would be very interested to know if the MW 2000/2155 has a bell throat of 17" circumference like a PT-6 to give it a 5/4 classification?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:45 am

Yeah, I was going to say that tuba sizes are relative. A big Mirafone would be a little Cerveny. A small Alexander would be a huge Yamaha.

One British manufacturer complicated things by having an E-flat tuba and a EE-flat tuba, as well as a B-flat tuba and a BB-flat tuba. The double letters have nothing to do with pitch (I would love to see a real EE-flat tuba!) They have to do with the width of the bore, I think...

I think it's a lot like me buying clothes here in Saigon. I wear a size L in the USA. Here, I get a size XXL. Yes, I have to go to the BIG MAN'S STORE!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:53 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:One British manufacturer complicated things by having an E-flat tuba and a EE-flat tuba, as well as a B-flat tuba and a BB-flat tuba. The double letters have nothing to do with pitch (I would love to see a real EE-flat tuba!) They have to do with the width of the bore, I think...

No, the Besson "EEb" has the same bore as some "Eb" tubas in their range. But the EEb is compensating. I think they doubled the letters to suggest that their compensating Eb tuba could serve in the role of a contrabass tuba because of its chromatic low register down into the pedal range.

(By the way, I hope to have access to a picture comparing a 5/4 Rudolf Meinl CC to my Holton, showing that the Rudy is a heck of a lot closer to 6/4 than what most people think of as 5/4.)

Rick "who thinks the marketers did the naming" Denney

Bandmaster · Post by **Bandmaster** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:02 pm

Just for clarification.... it's not the bore size through the valve section, it's the bore size and tapper through the bugle that make a tuba 3/4, 4/4, 5/4, or 6/4. Look at the bottom bow, a 4/4 is the diameter of your bicep while a 6/4 is the diameter of your thigh (well... for some folks, maybe your calf).