Suggestions (to manufacturers) for a new tuba

[circusboy]

Inspired by the recent thread with a similar title, I was wondering what suggestions this group has for manufacturers for a tuba that's not currently in production.

(Please don't weigh the thread down with "a BAT with a beer tap" sort of silly fantasy--or the general wishes for perfect intonation, etc.)

I'll start:

I'd like someone to make a 3/4-sized, CC, 5-valve helicon with detachable bell for easy transport.

You?

[tubatooter1940]

I want a tuba that weighs five pounds that can light up the Superdome.
After a gig it would be nice to fold it up and slide it into my glove compartment. I want it to look so good that it is a chick magnet because I no longer am.
That is my ideal. I challenge tuba makers to see how close they can get to that.
At my arrival into geezerhood, I find it is better to have a small tuba and a big P.A. system.

[WoodSheddin]

A set of 5 silver plated 4 valve titanium CC Sousaphones with an option for a helicon bell when it is windy. It would be extremely lightweight and almost impossible to dent.

[djwesp]

I want a sem-playable "pocket" tuba. (and no, i don't mean literally... i just mean a 1/4 sized horn)

I'm not picky. I just want a bass I can tote around with me, since I travel so much. It doesn't have to sound like a Hirsbrunner, but it needs to be able to fit in my car.


Starting price would have to be less than 5 grand.



(keeps dreaming)


Another thing I wonder, is with car companies and other instrument companies providing accessories specifically for a horn/car, when will they do it with tubas. Protective wraps for spots where we touch the horn (that aren't a fortune and specially made).

[Navytubaman]

I'd like to see one with valves as easy to move as Trumpet valves.

I'd like to see one with a moveable lead pipe so you can custom fit it to your set up.

I'd like to see one with a lever attached to the main slide and a trigger so you can manipulate the main slide to adjust pitch instead of pulling 1st and 3rd.

I'd like to see one come off the line with vented pistons and slides that move freely so you don't have to take your new horn to the repairman on the first day.

Finally, I'd really like one that went out to the gig, played the job, then put the check in my account - all while I sit at home and watch tv.

In reality, I think we need quality instruments at the school level that are affordable for band programs, but not ones that are cheap.

Without the ability to practice at home, young players miss out on many developmental opportunities.

To conclude, we need inexpensive, quality made, well playing horns for younger players to learn.

JKD

[The Big Ben]

I want a sem-playable "pocket" tuba. (and no, i don't mean literally... i just mean a 1/4 sized horn)

I'm not picky. I just want a bass I can tote around with me, since I travel so much. It doesn't have to sound like a Hirsbrunner, but it needs to be able to fit in my car.

It's been done. Cerveny c. 1900:



18 inches tall, 8 inch bell. Made for Austrian military. Has a reasonable tone. Pretty cool.

If one comes up. I got first dibs.

[djwesp]

What was the price on these?

I thought the new MW was well beyond my pleas of price?


I have heard of such instruments, but have yet to see any a normal person can afford (as is the tuba world)

[Naptown Tuba]

I want an "erector-set" build your own tuba kit. I'd like a King/Conn valve set that comes with small, medium, and large top bows, bottom bows, and bells. Build yourself the tuba that fits the job for that day

[Art Hovey]

I'd like to see a BBb Mirafone 1291 with 4 pistons, no 5th valve.
I'd like to see the valves arranged in an arc (like the valves on a Mirafone 1271) so that they fit a human hand.
Vented valves and slides that move freely would be nice, but I can do that myself. A Nirschl-style pull ring on the second valve slide would be nice; I use mine a lot. And the 4th valve slide should be really long.
Finally, I'd also like to see the bell and bottom bow made out of graphite fiber.

[jeopardymaster]

A legitimate 6/4 tenor tuba in Bb would be good -- bigger bore, bigger bell, bigger throat, than an Alex 151 or Willson. An honest-to-gosh tenor tuba for orchestral applications: not just for Strauss or Holst, but also for ex-opheicleide Mendelssohn, Berlioz, ex-cimbasso Verdi or Puccini, and other instances where an Eb or F is too heavy but a current euphonium isn't heavy enough. Easier to manage and manufacture, I suspect, than a cimbasso in any key, and probably a lot better.

[SplatterTone]

I second the motion for a pocket tuba. I don't play the 3/4 often, but there are times when its handy size makes me glad I have it. It would be even better if it were wadded up into a tighter ball.

And rhinestones. I was told by some choir people how it was so pretty how the tuba bell reflects the stained glass windows. It would be even prettier with rhinestones.

(oh yeah. make that an affordable pocket tuba. I am a member of cheapa$$ anonymous.)

[MileMarkerZero]

I'll bite.

First and foremost, smooth fast valves. Short stroke, and as fast as a trumpets.

A horn that sounds like a Chicago York, projects like a 188, and has a low register that can be measured on a Richter scale.

A 6/4 horn that does not cause a hernia and is ergonomically comfortable for people of all sizes.

A horn that comes out of the box with lapped valves and slides.

A double-horn that plays equally on both sides of the horn and the switch doesn't effect the sound. IOW, an F side that sounds like a great F tuba, and a CC side that sounds like a great CC tuba.

All of the above for under $5K

A rotary-valved C euphonium that plays as good as a Bb euph.

[Tom]

I'd like to see a BBb Mirafone 1291 with 4 pistons

The 1291 BBb can be had in a 4 valve version.

I'd like to see the valves arranged in an arc (like the valves on a Mirafone 1271) so that they fit a human hand.

Ditto.

[Tom Waid]

To conclude, we need inexpensive, quality made, well playing horns for younger players to learn. JKD

I second this. I would particularly like it if a 4/4 CC that plays reasonably well were available at a price that was affordable to a talented high school student or a cash-strapped college freshman.

[TubaRay]

One thing is for certain. ALL of the above suggestions are quite reasonable. Why haven't the manufacturers already marketed horns with those features? Surely they can get around the conflicting priorities. And they don't need to make a profit, anyway. So what's the problem?

Tuba manufacturers of the world(and the wannabes, too): Let's hear from you!!!

[MartyNeilan]

A horn that sounds good and plays in tune.
And I mean in tune by trumpet standards, not in tune by pumping slides up and down and contorting your face.

[LoyalTubist]

I had an idea for a tuba for invalids when I was a teenager and I shared the idea with friends. No one laughed. You take an old sousaphone and take apart the tubing so it can fit around a hospital bed. It's mounted onto the bed frame and the tuba is arranged in such a way that it doesn't interfere with the bed lowering and raising. Somewhere I have the pictures I made of it (my stuff from California will finally be shipped here next week!) Maybe I have a copy of it there!

[Bob Mosso]

--or the general wishes for perfect intonation

How about a main slide trigger as standard equipment.

[Rick Denney]

A set of 5 silver plated 4 valve titanium CC Sousaphones with an option for a helicon bell when it is windy. It would be extremely lightweight and almost impossible to dent.

Say, Sean, titanium is not strong enough to meet your requirement without also being heavy. And it is a real bear to fabricate, and I think plating it would not be possible.

What you want is carbon-fiber composite, painted black with polished silver-plated metal bits. I absolutely believe that the result could be musically acceptable, very much lighter, and still provide a sufficiently crisp appearance. It would also meet the requirement of being undentable.

Rick "keeping it in the realm of possible" Denney

[Rick Denney]

1. I'd like to see one with valves as easy to move as Trumpet valves.

2. I'd like to see one with a moveable lead pipe so you can custom fit it to your set up.

3. I'd like to see one with a lever attached to the main slide and a trigger so you can manipulate the main slide to adjust pitch instead of pulling 1st and 3rd.

4. I'd like to see one come off the line with vented pistons and slides that move freely so you don't have to take your new horn to the repairman on the first day.

Boredom alert: I'm going engineering geek in response to this.

Okay, I'll take a systems engineering approach to this, and suggest that we first define needs in terms of what we will do with the tuba, then establish requirements in support of those needs, and then (and only then) suggesting some design possibilities to fulfill those requirements.

Your four items (which I numbered), and a couple of Sean's trace to the following needs, expressed as activities: We will play the music provided accurately and in tune without subsequent modifications. We expect the instrument to fit us physically. We will empty the slide by pulling and dumping, by opening a water key, either or both. We will load the tuba on a bus without a case, carry it through doorways, and subject it to occasional bumps with hard objects. We will frequently play the instrument while standing or marching.

The requirements would be:

1. The valves shall move quickly enough to allow accurate playing of 16th-note runs at a tempo of quarter=144 (or substitute your own standard).

2. The tuba shall provide an adjustible mouthpiece position to accommodate any player from 4' to 7' tall (or something like that).

3. The tuba shall provide the ability to mechanically adjust the pitch of all notes using a single control.

4. The tuba shall provide an adjustible position so that the angle of the mouthpiece to the face shall not be dictated by the position of the bottom bow.

5. The tuba shall be constructed of material that can be repaired using conventional techniques, which includes the use of cements.

6. The tuba shall be constructed to resist dents resulting from impacts of 2 G's or less.

7. The tuba shall be constructed to resist any function-limiting damage resulting from a 2-G impact on any part of the instrument from any direction.

8. The tuba shall be designed to allow pulling and dumping of slides without popping sounds and without holding a valve down.

9. The tuba shall be designed so that water can be drained without rotating the tuba more than 30 degrees from normal playing position. (I would rather make it less.)

10. The tuba shall be provided with integral carrying handles.

11. The tuba shall not weight more than 18 pounds (or whatever).

If you express these as requirements, then the manufacturers can come up with their own designs to address those requirements. This allows for innovation without losing sight of what we are trying to accomplish. Of course, there would need to be a set of requirements for things like sound characteristics and number of valves, though some of these would necessarily be subjective. That violates good requirements-writing principles, but it is still a musical instrument. I concentrated on the mechanical aspects that are so often ignored, but that affect our quality of life significantly.

For example, a guard over the valves and water keys would respond to Requirement 7, and if cleverly design might also address Requirement 10. Making the tuba lighter would make it easier to fulfill the durability and carrying requirements in addition to Requirement 11. Using carbon composite might be one approach, but provideing sufficient gaurds might be another approach.

The old Martin adjustible tuning bits were a great response to Requirement 4, and one that I need on several of my other instruments. By the way, that old Martin fiberglass tuba addresses more of these requirements than any of my other tubas.

A main-slide tuning stick would address Requirement 3.

Appropriately placed water keys would address Requirement 9, and vented valves would address Requirement 8. You wouldn't need vented valves for tuning on the fly because you would have already addressed that requirement with the main-slilde tuning stick.

But there may be other ways to fulfill these requirements, too. If we dicate the design without understanding the needs and requirements, we might end up with features that do what we say without really solving the problem we wanted solved.

I think it would be cool to develop a really good set of functional requirements for a tuba that would trace to the needs, using correct engineering procedures. Then, we could evaluate instruments more consistently and objectively. Hmmmm. Maybe a project in the offing.

Rick "who designs for a living" Denney