Conical tuning slide?

bububassboner · Post by **bububassboner** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:09 am

how do these work? I'm a visual person so if some one has a pic of this that would be cool. Does this do anything for the playing of a horn? All opinions are welcome here.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:38 am

Besson takes a slightly different approach: The o.d. of the tubing of each leg is the same, so it will fit in either way. What is different is the i.d. of the tubing: the side coming from the valve block is thicker walled, hence a smaller i.d., than the side going to the bugle, which is thinner walled, hence larger i.d. Same result.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:15 am

Edwards / Getzen has something they do on their trombone tuning slides where there are tapered inserts inside the slides, making the leg on each side of the slide somewhat conical as well. Of course, once you pull the slide there is still some cylindrical tubing introduced.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:36 am

iiipopes wrote:Besson takes a slightly different approach: The o.d. of the tubing of each leg is the same, so it will fit in either way. What is different is the i.d. of the tubing: the side coming from the valve block is thicker walled, hence a smaller i.d., than the side going to the bugle, which is thinner walled, hence larger i.d. Same result.

So... you can put the slide in backwards? I've worked on several Bessons but haven't paid attention to this.

bububassboner · Post by **bububassboner** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:08 pm

on I beleive its baltimore brass they have a yorkburner with a "retro fit conical tuning slide". so thats nothing special?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:22 pm

TubaTinker wrote:
iiipopes wrote:Besson takes a slightly different approach: The o.d. of the tubing of each leg is the same, so it will fit in either way. What is different is the i.d. of the tubing: the side coming from the valve block is thicker walled, hence a smaller i.d., than the side going to the bugle, which is thinner walled, hence larger i.d. Same result.
So... you can put the slide in backwards? I've worked on several Bessons but haven't paid attention to this.

Yes. The first time was unintentional, and I wondered why it sounded a tad different. Then I pulled the main tuning slide and gave it a good look. Boy, was I surprised!

Probably the best example in tubadom of a "conical" main tuning slide is the main tuning slide off a Conn souzy. There is significant difference in the diameter of the legs, and definite apparent taper in the curved bow of the slide.

Bach Vindabona and King Sympony dual bore trumpets do the same thing, expanding through the bow of the main tuning slide. The Bach follows the same approach as the Besson, achieving the smaller .453 bore with tubing wall thickness and maintaining instead of increasing the o.d. Ironically, when you order a straight medium bore Bach trumpet, and even though the tubing wall is thicker to get the smaller .453 instead of the standard ML .459, the valve block and size of valve ports on the pistons are the same.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:25 pm

On the Far East rotary BBb instruments, the tuning slides are straight-bore. Even on the ones that supposedly copy the Miraphone 186.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:44 pm

bloke wrote:
TubaTinker wrote:
So... you can put the slide in backwards? I've worked on several Bessons but haven't paid attention to this.
Most of the King 2B trombone playing slides work sort of in the same manner...The top one is .481" bore, and the bottom is .491" bore. They both have the same outer stocking diameter. One is just thicker than the other.

Has it been done, or would it be possible to create a truly conical trombone where the outside diameter of the inner slide remains the same, but the inside diameter gradually expands throughout the bore? The outer slide would remain the same, but I imagine for this thing to work the inner slide outer diameter as well as the outer slide inner & outer diameters would have to be quite wide to make enough room for a proper taper. Maybe make this thing too front heavy, a ergonomic nightmare of sorts.

I guess it would only be "truly conical" in 1st position because the length of tubing between the end of the inner slide and the start of the "curvy bit" between the two legs (ie the outer slide) would be cylindrical when it's past first position. I also guess that the farther the position, the less conical the instrument would become.

Would this supposed instrument's tone somewhat resemble that of a euphonium? The valve section would also have to be more conical as well... perhaps it's even possible to have this, in some aspects (ie 1st position especially) more "conical sounding" than a euphonium?

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:59 am

quinterbourne wrote:Has it been done, or would it be possible to create a truly conical trombone where the outside diameter of the inner slide remains the same, but the inside diameter gradually expands throughout the bore?

Cornet soloist Ernst Couturier created a family of "Continuously Conical Bore" instruments that he built in 1916 in LaPorte, Indiana. This included a conical bore trombone! The valved instruments did not have (re)moveable valve slides, and came with mutiple, different length tuning slides in order to keep the cylindrical tubing to a minimum. This design was later modified to include removeable valve sides of a duo-bore.

I don't find my Couturier cornet to be significantly different in sound than "normal" cornets, and apparently, not enough other people did either. He sold out to Lyon & Healy in 1923.

<img src="http://www.horn-u-copia.net/instruments ... t-2768.jpg" width="300">