Loud Valves

[tuba114]

Lately I have had some trouble with my rotary valves playing louder than I can, but the problem is that I have tried everything I can think of to lighten them up. All the screws are tight, the stop corks are fine, the linkage is in good condition, the vales themselves move excellent, and I have always used Hetman products on it, there just really really loud. The tuba is a 1976 Hirsbrunner HB-2. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[jonesbrass]

Just a thought from experience: have you checked to make sure the arm isn't hitting the valve spindle? Mine was doing that, and as soon as I loosened the arm, it stopped hitting the spindle, and the noise was gone. FWIW. Hope you get your problem solved. I hate noisy rotors.

[Alan Baer]

Okay,
so you've checked for any loose screws. Be certain that the stop arm is not hitting the stop (because your bumper is worn)
the only other two things it can be is:
1. end play
2. slop in the top bearing. This is where the male comes through the female. This is a tapered stem. If there is play side to side the male slaps against the wall of the female.
Esp. when your horn is made in the 70's (I think you said)
Also, you should be using a heavier oil on the bearings.
I will use two oils on a rotor horn.
1. heavier oil, ie. Marvel mystery oil, Mobil 1 0-30, for the the bearing.
2. any valve oil, as a sealant and to keep crap from growing on the valve face itself.
If you live in warm climate, I'd pour the Marvel oil down the top valve slide and play it till the rotors start to slow and feel sluggish. THEN cut it with the valve oil. Valve oil is really nothing more than kerosene. (yes, some are different) But, as this evaporates, and it will... You are still left with the silicone base of the Marvel oil.... no wear on the valve...
I would suspect that your top bearing is worn. A GOOD repairman should be able to to a valve job and bring them back to like new condition. Be aware, I said good repairman. Many repairman SAY they can do it. Take it to someone who has a good track record and satisfied customers.

good luck.
A Baer

[TubaSteve]

I've noticed that I am at times getting some noise from the #2 valve on my Meinl Weston 25. I have figured it was end play. What is needed to correct the end play? I notice that if I oil it more frequently it will quiet down, but I figure that the oil is taking up some of the space. I would greatly appreciate if some of the techs here would give me a glimpse of how these are repaired and how they are dissembled.

Thanks!
Steve

[iiipopes]

Endplay = worn linkage.

The only real cure is to swage, or rebuild the connections. You're right: the same reason you use thick oil on the linkage to quiet it down is the same reason you use heavier oil or an additive to quiet down the lifter noise in a high mileage automobile engine, to fill in the gaps worn between the parts. Same deal.

That's why a lot of people change out older S-arm linkages for the uniball or miniball linkages. As they wear, you can adjust the ball and socket joints for the play, and they're much easier to replace when worn out, as you just put on new ends and set screws and get back on with it.

[Chuck(G)]

I've noticed that I am at times getting some noise from the #2 valve on my Meinl Weston 25. I have figured it was end play. What is needed to correct the end play? I notice that if I oil it more frequently it will quiet down, but I figure that the oil is taking up some of the space. I would greatly appreciate if some of the techs here would give me a glimpse of how these are repaired and how they are dissembled.

Usually, it's the #1 valve that gets noisy first (it's closest to your mouth and gets used the most). I suspect it's not wear that's causing the noise on your #2 valve.

Unscrew the rear cap of the valve and look at the bearing plate--it should be flush with the valve casing. It's possible that it's been pushed out slightly, causing some end-play. The remedy is to push it back into place, either with your bare hands (grab the valve casing and press down with your thumb all around the plate) or using something fairly soft, such as a length of small wooden dowel tapped on one end with the handle of a medium-sized screwdriver. Go around and around the plate with gentle taps until it's home.

Check the screws on the small plate that holds the bumpers--sometimes these can loosen and get noisy.

Finally, check that the screw that holds the stop arm is snug (don't be a gorilla with it; just make it snug so it doesn't unscrew).

A couple of weeks ago, I had a Yamaha YBB-641 in with a noisy #3 valve. There was no end-play that I could determine and everything seemed to be snug, but the valve just kept clattering away. A careful inspection showed that the stop arm fixing screw was about 1/32" too long--it bottomed out in the rotor body without firmly holding the stop arm in place, so the stop arm would rock slightly as the valve was operated.

[Dan Schultz]

I'm going to have to follow the advice that Bloke gave you in the beginning.... There are several things that could be causing your noise. It could be something very simple to fix... or maybe not. You REALLY need to take your horn to a competent repairman. He will probably let you watch as he checks out your rotors and he should give you a demonstration of how to service your rotors.

[lgb&dtuba]

Unscrew the rear cap of the valve and look at the bearing plate--it should be flush with the valve casing. It's possible that it's been pushed out slightly, causing some end-play. The remedy is to push it back into place, either with your bare hands (grab the valve casing and press down with your thumb all around the plate) or using something fairly soft, such as a length of small wooden dowel tapped on one end with the handle of a medium-sized screwdriver. Go around and around the plate with gentle taps until it's home.

If you do this be very careful that you don't get the plate crooked even a little bit. If it's not exactly right you'll get binding between it and the rotor bearing journal. That's a bad thing on many levels and if not corrected immediately can cause damage to the journal and/or the plate.

[TubaSteve]

To preface this, I don't plan on tearing into this without working with a competent technician, I was mostly curious as anything. Also, I guess that I should have been more clear on what I meant by end play. The play that I have in not in any of the linkages, it is the rotor valve moves very slightly up and down in the bore as if I was attempting to pull it out. If I remove the bottom end caps, (which is where I usually oil them anyway), If I grasp the stem end of the valve, and pull/push gently, I can see some very slight movement in this valve, that can't be seen in any of the other valves. That is the only thing that has any movement at all, and since I oiled it, the noise goes away till the oil disperses, so that is where I suspeced that it was coming from. The noise is not yet objectionable, I just noticed it the other day, and it is only slightly more than the rest, but it is certainly more than it was.

Thanks for the posts!
Steve

[Chuck(G)]

FWIW, if you have some noise in your metal non-adjustable uniball linkages, this stuff usually clears that up with a drop at each ball end:



Buy it at a bicycle shop.

[JHardisk]

This is where the male comes through the female. This is a tapered stem. If there is play side to side the male slaps against the wall of the female.
Esp. when your horn is made in the 70's (I think you said)

Mr. Baer:

This is a rated G message board. We need no explanation as to how euphoniums are made.

I know the 70's were some wild times for some people...