Your experience: What's the best fiberglass sousaphone?

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:36 am

There's enough experience and knowledge on this forum to rate fiberglass sousaphones.

Rate these models if you played them.

-Older Conn 36K
-Conn 22K
-Olds
-New Conn 36K/King 2370
-Yamaha YSH-301
-Jupiter 596L
-Holton BB300
-Bach 1529

Did I miss any?

Z-Tuba Dude · Post by **Z-Tuba Dude** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:24 am

Don't forget the old Kings....

I have always thought that they played pretty well.

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:49 am

Yes,
Let's add the old King to the list.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:31 pm

Definitely pre-cyborg Kings. I played a first generation fiberglass King all through high school. Since then I've played newer Kings, Conns of all sorts, Olds, Beuscher, etc., at one time or another.

The fiberglass one that played best was that old King. All of the others had one or another intonation, articulation or tone problems, while the Kings were good enough they did double duty in concert band until the school could afford King tubas in addition to the souzys.

For a souzy, however, I still prefer a pre-Macmillan Conn 14k or one of its cousins, Pan American or Cavalier, with the regular valves and the 24 inch bell. Not really any heavier to speak of, the 24 inch bell is much more manageable than a 26, and you can take the upper loop of the first valve tubing, turn it into a slide, and fix any of the usual multivalve combinations, and 1st valve 2nd space C is not so flat but it can be lipped. Having a smaller throat than a 20k gives better definition of tone, and it is responsive to mouthpiece selection: Conn Helleberg, Wick 1 or 2, or similar funnel cup for a broad, warm "tubesque" tone, or a Bach 18, Kelly 18, or other similar rounded cup mpc for a more projecting tone outdoors.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:53 pm

I've had Conn 36k's, Kings, Olds, and Reynolds plastic sousas. They Reynolds had the hardest fiberglass of all them and even had a 'ring' like brass. The Reynolds was bright and wasn't stuffy like other plastic sousas I've had. ... or maybe the fact that it was painted blue and gold had something to do with it being an exceptional player!

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:34 pm

I defer to tubatinker, having never played the Reynolds Contempora fiberglass souzy.

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:11 pm

My test horns for comparaison purpuses are:
My own
1937 Conn 38K
1937 Conn 26K

The college's
GK400155 Conn 22K
1968 Conn 38K
1969 Conn 38K
And now a new crappy Conn 38K aka King.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:59 pm

If it is smaller kids and you are doing it for weight get the reynolds! They are pretty good, given what they are.

I've never met a fiber sousa I liked.

(but I think a homemade sousaphone, made by a certain member of this forum, would be very good--- maybe he'll chime in on how he gets nonbrass horns to look and play so well)

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:34 pm

Yeah, I expected some kind of answer like that.
Something like these priceless replies "The best F tuba is an Eb". Sousaphones are out there, being played by a girls, boys, men and women, like it or not.

There was a good reason to invent the instrument and it's still valid today. Try standing in front of a band, outside, with a baton. Sousaphones make a difference.

Although I agree that potentially brass instrument would sound better, consider this:

a) I played enough horns in my life to recognize a bad tuba when I play one;
b) One of the older 36K I have here plays much better than a lot of brass tubas I tried;
c) I'm only 45 years old and I felt the last gig I played with my 1937 Conn 38K for a week. Sounds good but... it's a beast.

djwesp · Post by **djwesp** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:48 pm

Sylvano wrote: a) I played enough horns in my life to recognize a bad tuba when I play one;
b) One of the older 36K I have here plays much better than a lot of brass tubas I tried;
c) I'm only 45 years old and I felt the last gig I played with my 1937 Conn 38K for a week. Sounds good but... it's a beast.

I don't think for a second you wouldn't recognize a good sousaphone. I don't have a problem with sousaphones, just the fiber variety.

The reynolds is the best of the fiberglass sousaphones I've tried, but even then it sounded and reacted (especially at higher dynamics) like a fiberglass sousaphone. (second space C was really an odd note on it too)

The 36K I played had an okay sound, but some serious intonation issues, mostly in combinations using the third valve.

Somehow my dislike for fiber sousaphones was taken as a personal attack? Horns are like a lot of things; to each his own. I don't play the correct horn for many settings either, so I have been on the end of what you think is discrimination based upon chosen instrument. I don't really care as long as you sound good on it, and I haven't been able to sound very good on fiberglass sousaphones and haven't heard anyone else sound very good on them either.

The question regarded my experience with Fiberglass sousaphones and I supplied that... as well as my distaste for them. My opinion, although not agreed upon, was in no way a stab at anyone who plays those instruments.

I put my name and face with my posts for a reason. I'm not some troll hiding behind a computer. I offer my opinions and am not afraid of people associating those opinions with a real person. Not a professional, not a beginner, just an older college student, a guy who practices to get better, and knows what horns he likes and doesn't.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:02 pm

I've played older Kings (in fact, for six straight years in school), the Conn 36K (not the new rebadged King), a Jupiter, and a Yamaha. I've never played the Reynolds, but I would expect them to be good. Of the ones I've played, the original 36K was by far the best, in terms of sound and playability.

Have you ruled out brass? Older brass Conn 14K's are similar to the 36K, but are better made, better playing, better sounding, and still compact and as light as many fiberglass sousaphones.

In any case, I think you're better off with refurbished older models than with the new stuff that is currently available. This is especially true if you reacted negatively towards the newer King/Conn.

Rick "who never particularly liked the small-bore/giant-bell King concept in sousaphones" Denney

Dave Hayami · Post by **Dave Hayami** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:13 pm

FWIW,
The Old's/Reynolds have an adjustable upper first valve slide already.
And with the other slides being somewhat longer than other brands, a low Eb is very playable.I happen to like the sound of these horns more than other F/G sousaphones. They do weigh more than an old Conn 36K.
For short period of time, the old King 2370(?) had an adjustable upper first valve slide also.( I have one and have played on 2 others)
My Pan American (14K stencil) is as light, if not lighter than the F/G horns.
Depending on the size of the player, the old Conn 36K and the Old's/Reynolds will fit better than the King/new Conn .
Just my opinion,
Dave Hayami
old Conn 36K
Old's F/G sousaphone
old King F/G sousaphone

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:14 pm

Rick Denney wrote:Older brass Conn 14K's are similar to the 36K, but are better made, better playing, better sounding, and still compact and as light as many fiberglass sousaphones.

In any case, I think you're better off with refurbished older models than with the new stuff that is currently available. This is especially true if you reacted negatively towards the newer King/Conn.

One point where Rick and I absolutely agree. BTW: my favorite souzy is the same mid-30's vintage: a Conn Cavalier which is the predecessor of a 14k, with exactly the same construction.

BTW: there are your choice of four, yes, count 'em, four older Conn 14k's at Dillons right now for $1395 each. I'd get one if I didn't already have access to one.

Sylvano · Post by **Sylvano** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:37 am

I wrote a letter to the music store where I bought the three new 36K outlining the misrepresentation by the Conn-Selmer company regarding their sousaphone.

I a nutshell I said that if the company only sells the King model, it shouldn't label it Conn 36K. The store owner is to pass my letter to the company. I'll let you know when I get an answer.

As for the 14K recommendation, I was thinking about it and may be a solution if the store accept to take the new 36Ks back. Unfortunately, you can't repaint brass sousaphones and they tend to look like hell after a few years in the hands of students. At least they would have to be silver plated.

Anyone has played the Yamaha?

Tom Holtz · Post by **Tom Holtz** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:40 pm

The fiberglass Yamaha sousas we played at Disneyland were really quite good. Don't know how they hold up over time, these were only one summer old. They were good, though.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:05 pm

Sylvano wrote:I wrote a letter to the music store where I bought the three new 36K outlining the misrepresentation by the Conn-Selmer company regarding their sousaphone.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:15 am

When I was in the Army, we used some old Kings (c. 1978) that weren't bad.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:27 am

Hey, bloke -- could be. But the 1st generation King souzy I played, which was the oldest one in my high school's stable, and probably from the mid 1960's (this was mid to late 1970'), was heavier than the "newer" ones of the same model. I was complaining about the weight one day, and getting the usual freshman jibs as a result. So I turned to the senior section leader and asked him to pick it up and then tell me. After he did, he gave it back to me and didn't tease me anymore.

Also, I hear the newest King/Conn/Holton/Bach cyborg model is almost flimsy light, because they are now of moulded resin instead of layered fiberglass original construction.

I admit to not having played the newest cyborg offerings, so if anybody has an actual comparison between pre-cyborg and cyborg as far as weight goes, please post.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:50 pm

Bloke - I'm not up on my numbers for Conn fiberglass souzys. Does your 36k have the "regular" valve block, or the "offset" valve block that the 20k has?

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:30 pm

Funny!... all of a sudden there seems to be a lot of interest in sousaphones. In the last couple of months or so, I've sold a half dozen of 'em and could have sold more if I have more resources for 'cheap' horns. The last two, a plastic Conn and a plastic King went to a high school. I've also noticed that the prices of souzies on the auction sites seem to be going up. Could it be that marching bands are switching back to traditional gear?