Bass amp advice

[bstevens]

Hi

I've started playing mostly mic'd up gigs now, and I was thinking about getting a bass amp - basically I have to always overblow to hear myself when competing with amplified instruments (drums, guitars, violin etc - swing band). Just wondering what I can get away with in terms of size and power - just as a monitor for myself which will then lead onto a main PA.

I use a Sennheiser gooseneck clip-on mic, which seems to be fine, although not sure about needing a preamp etc. Someone pointed me to the MarkBass 121p - 12" bass amp. Otherwise I've been recommended a 15" in any other brand - but I don't really want to be lugging around a huge rig and my tuba. Any suggestions to try get something together for less money than the Markbass amp? will I need a preamp?

Thanks in advance!
Bruce

PS - I'm playing a Yamaha YBB621s at the moment, so obviously a bigger horn would help! But the principle will be the same really.

[josh_kaprun]

You should check out Carvin bass amps. You can get one of their Redline combo amps for less than $500 USD. I have the one with one 15" and a tweeter that has served me great. However, based on something that I heard from Bob Stewart last summer at ITEC, you should probably go for the one with a 12" because it is much easier to dial in the lows on a 12" than it is to take them out of a 15".

Edit:
By the way, don't let the price of the amps fool you. They are inexpensive because they sell direct, which means that there is no middle-man markup. Furthermore, they are LOUD. I have a friend who has the one with the 12" speaker and it puts out a pretty formidable sound. Mine, the one with the 15", has overpowered full-stacks without distording.

[iiipopes]

I second a Carvin. I have been using an old 300 head for over a dozen years, and now have it loaned out since I'm not playing any bass gigs that aren't direct to the board right now. so it's had pretty much continuous use from day one in every environment you can think of from Friday night to Sunday afternoon. It has the clearest, cleanest, as much guts as you need tone as well as the cleanest line out as any amp I have played. Period. When I got it, I had cash in my back pocket and I tried everything: SWR, Fender, Ampeg, Hartke, G-K Trace Elliot, Peavy, Marshall, Warwick, etc. About the only thing I didn't try are some of the new "boutique" amps that have come out since then, like Ashdown. But I tried one of those recently at a local store, and went back to my Carvin.

[GC]

Personally, I'm a big fan of GK and Hartke.

If your Sennheiser has an XLR plug, you're going to need a preamp on almost any bass amp; I don't know of a single small bass amp that has that kind of input plug outside of some very expensive high-end stuff.

However, you might consider getting a small keyboard amp instead. They often have XLR inputs for use as a keyboard amp/PA for small venue gigs. Most have a pretty acceptable bottom end, too; I have several doubling friends who use their KB amps for bass and some who use bass amps for keyboard. There are plenty around that are not too expensive.

Edit: Yet another alternative might be a small self-powered PA speaker. Many of them have both 1/4'' and XLR inputs, and some, like the JBL's, sound really good and really loud. You're starting to get into some expense with them, though.

[Dan Schultz]

I use a Roland KC350 keyboard amp to mic my tuba. It has plenty of bass responsed. Works fine.

[tubatooter1940]

My e-bay Fender Squire bass guitar and 15 amp Crate bass practice amp will arrive Tuesday. I plan to jack the bass into the p.a. board and out of our JBL's.
Playing bass guitar on most rock tunes and tuba on the blues and jazz stuff will extend my career and enable me to sing a lot more backup.

[Ryan_Beucke]

I would also recommend a keyboard amp. Most bass amps are designed specifically for bass guitar, while keyboard amps are designed to accurately reproduce the signal they receive. They can definitly handle the bass frequencies too.

Roland makes a good combo amp with a 12" speaker too.

[tubatom91]

I'm a Gallien Krueger man, myself. I bought an old guitar amp (GK) and have loved it. I have played on a few bass GK's and loved them just as much.

[iiipopes]

In the '80's, there was an amplifier called a Polytone "Minibrute" with a 12" speaker and c. 60 w. of power the probably measured a scant 13". At the time that pro-quality amp was only c. $200 (cheap, even then). Today, I would say that $400 - $500 for this amp (if new) would be cheap - even though prices (adjusted for inflation) have greatly decreased.

1/ Is that manufacturer still in existence (in the U.S.)?

2/ Is that amp still manufactured?

That was an extremely efficient, extremely durable, extremely small, and incredibly good-sounding (particularly for 12" with low wattage) amp.

Indeed. I have a Minibrute with a 15 inch speaker, 100 watts, that I got in the early 80's. Good clean little amp. No frills: volume, bass, treble, and a switch for bright-normal-dark. Great little amp for jazz band. Speaker out to an additional or bigger cabinet as you desire. Just not large enough to drive a heavily amplified band, although I did use it for keyboards to good effect. I think a cousin of mine has it right now.

I believe they are still in business, but do not have a website. A little surfing indicates they are still a favorite for jazzers.

[LoyalTubist]

On a historical note, I remember when the idea of amplifying acoustical wind instruments was in its infancy in the 1970s. A couple of California high school bands, Chaffey (CHAY-fee) High School in Ontario and Porterville High School, used a portable pack on each band member, excluding percussion. The bands sounded like an old fashioned pocket transistor AM radio, purchased for three bucks at Thrifty Drug Store. (Ironically, both bands had orange in their uniforms!) Anyway, maybe when I think about tuba amplification, it reminds me of that. I need to hear something to change my mind.

[Art Hovey]

The Gallien-Krueger is way better than the polytone mini-brute.
You don't need a preamplifier; just get a mic transformer that is built into a phone plug. The 12-inch GK amp is small, not heavy, puts out a lot of sound, and has outputs that a sound guy can tap into easily for big stage performances. It's also built to last. Not inexpensive, but worth every cent.

[pulseczar]

Speaking strictly from a bass player's point of view, Eden has huge amounts of punch which I can't imagine a tuba having. GKs have great clarity in their sound and when tuned correctly they can give a little more edge and oomph to the sound.

[iiipopes]

The Gallien-Krueger is way better than the polytone mini-brute.
You don't need a preamplifier; just get a mic transformer that is built into a phone plug. The 12-inch GK amp is small, not heavy, puts out a lot of sound, and has outputs that a sound guy can tap into easily for big stage performances. It's also built to last. Not inexpensive, but worth every cent.

Yes, for heavily amplified gigs. But for small jazz gigs where only the guitar and/or bass are amplified with a clean tone, they're great. I used my minibrute to back up everything from combos to full complement jazz bands with no problem. Only when I tried it with miked up drums and guitar players with Marshalls (and I resemble that remark) did it fall short.

Brands aside, since you're amplifying bass, you need an amplifier that has good clean current flow in abundance, not just tweaked voltage output to get a particular RMS rating. This has a lot to do with the way the power section of the amp is designed, with adequate output transformers, etc.

Another option, albeit more expensive, is to get a good clean rack mic preamp with a lot of headroom, even tube, and run it through a good PA amplifier that is designed for a large stage, like a Crown, Mackie, etc; again, something designed to pass a lot of clean current.

[bstevens]

The Gallien-Krueger is way better than the polytone mini-brute.
You don't need a preamplifier; just get a mic transformer that is built into a phone plug. The 12-inch GK amp is small, not heavy, puts out a lot of sound, and has outputs that a sound guy can tap into easily for big stage performances. It's also built to last. Not inexpensive, but worth every cent.

Thanks for the reponse(s - everyone!). Which GK model were you referring to? There seem to be quite a few different types .. this one?
http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/mb1 ... -112/10173

Thanks again!
Bruce

[lgb&dtuba]

Just wondering what I can get away with in terms of size and power - just as a monitor for myself which will then lead onto a main PA.

I'd consider something like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=601713

It's a powered floor monitor. You'd have to split your mike signal so that you could feed this monitor and the sound board. It should have plenty of power for hearing yourself. I don't use a floor monitor myself, though.

I use an in-ear monitor in between the instrument mike and the sound board, with Shure E4 sound isolating ear buds. The monitor amp mounts with velcro right on the tuba behind the valve block and out of sight of the audience. When I need to be able to hear myself better it's because of extreme ambient noise and the in ear monitor affords hearing protection as well as the ability to hear myself.

I also use an in-line on/off switch so I can kill the tuba mike when I blow out the water.

For me, a floor monitor would just add to the extreme sound pressure levels I'm already facing. Hearing protection is a necessity under those conditions.

[dmmorris]

...sorta depends on what kinda gig.

If I'm just laying down a simple bass line and they want a "thumpy", "ballsy" driving sound to work with a heavy kick-drum, then I use an Ampeg electric bass amp.

If I'm doing stuff that requires good clarity of timbre and texture rather than just alot-of-balls, then I use an Acoustic Image.

[bstevens]

Have you tried a shallow mouthpiece and going "contrabass trombone," as someone once described these horns, on it?
Or asking your buddies to tone it down?

I've tried a bass bone mouthpiece .. however it's just not a tuba anymore! The 621's are small horns, but they definitely pack a punch when required. Even if I bought a new horn, it'll only be a small 4/4 - something with projection.

The problem really is that I'm having to overblow to hear myself, which is losing tone and knackering my lips really. Turning down the rest of the band is difficult as 1) they're guitarists/vocalists and 2) the drummer can only play so softly, so need to match sounds. Generally it sounds fine to the outside world, I'm just tired of never hearing myself at gigs, or overblowing to do so! Thanks for the advice thus far.

Bruce

[porkchopsisgood]

I used to own a Hartke 2115 200-watt Amp.....nice (especially if you get casters for it...it's a little heavy.

And I just sold a Ampeg BA-115 100-watt amp that sounded beautiful....even though it is one of Ampeg's intermediate amps it still has a very compact and characteristic sound....it would be more than enough for you as a monitor.

Both are combo amps...and since you are looking for something to act as a monitor I would suggest the Ampeg...it's a tiltback.

Good Luck!

AVC

[tubajoe]

I play amplifed a lot... probably at least 50% of the time... especially on gigs where there is a drumset involved.

I usually use the same GK that Art Hovey mentions (which is usually an acoustic bass amp). It works well, and most of all it is quite portable. The XLR out is nice too... if I trust the soundman. I also will use a modified Peavey geetar amp too once in a while.

I am considering switching to Hartke though. I like their new line.

[bstevens]

Just an update for anyone interested .. I went in to try various amps. Without a preamp, my signal is really quite rubbish when used with an amp. Huge amounts of hiss. THe only amp that got any decent sound was the Markbass 121P. I'm unsure of whether to buy a separate preamp or go for an acoustic amp like the Markbass AC101. I assume it's less powerful, but then really if I want some huge power I could always add in another cab. The Markbass sound is amazing though - really superior to any others I tried.

Does anyone know of a reason that going for an acoustic amp would be worse than a bass amp? If anything, I think it would more accurately reflect the tuba sound (as there seem to be far more high frequencies in a tuba than a bass guitar). Any further thoughts welcomed. Check out http://www.markbass.it .. just delicious.

(Somehow I've convinced myself that I really need to spend that much on an amp. Sigh)

Bruce