Questions for the experienced F tuba player....

Rick Oakes · Post by **Rick Oakes** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:57 pm

It appears that questions regarding which F tuba is the best arise frequently on TubeNet. To me (looking at online pictures) it seems that some F tubas have first valve slide access comparible to bass tubas; other F tubas seem to have first valve slide access that is not very good.

Questions:

1) Is this online visual assessment correct?

2) Is this a problem?

Thank you.----Rick

Rick Oakes · Post by **Rick Oakes** » Fri May 11, 2007 8:59 pm

should read "comparable to CONTRABASS tubas."

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:21 pm

Check the first valve slide access before you buy the horn.

You see this a lot on BBb tubas built in the USA. Donald Stauffer used a rod mounted to the slide to access it. That was about 70 years ago. We have more choices today.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:40 pm

You may not need to pull the first-valve slide on some F tubas, particularly the 6-valve tubas. You may find that you need to manipulate the main-tuning slide or some other slide instead.

This is another reason to try before buying.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:45 pm

I guess the problem with (mainly rotary) F tubas is that there is often one or two valves before the first valve. This results in the first valve and slide being much farther down the instrument... as well as being shorter.

If you look at most 4 piston + 1 rotor F tubas, you will find the first valve slide much more accessible, because the rotor is usually after the fourth valve... meaning the first valve and slide is at the top of the horn.

Any examples of 5 or 6 valve rotary F tubas with the 5th and/or 6th valves placed after the fourth valve?

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Fri May 11, 2007 10:59 pm

TouchÃ©

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:27 am

quinterbourne wrote:Any examples of 5 or 6 valve rotary F tubas with the 5th and/or 6th valves placed after the fourth valve?

The Willson 3200RS 5-rotor F has the 5th rotor after the 4th (and turned on its side) -- take a look at the one on the Baltimore Brass website.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Sat May 12, 2007 11:24 am

Yes, so it does have an accessible 1st valve slide.

Question: is it possible that, on an F tuba, it is more advantageous to have access to the 5th valve slide, instead of the 1st?

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:05 pm

quinterbourne wrote:Question: is it possible that, on an F tuba, it is more advantageous to have access to the 5th valve slide, instead of the 1st?

That is possible -- the relative advantages of the two would depend on how you use them. For the 5th valve in particular, if you're in the mid-to-upper range, you'd want the slide in far enough for the 1+5 combination to be in tune for use as a trill combination, whereas in the low range you'd want the slide out far enough to work with most-or-all of the other valves to extend the low range. A kicker for that slide could be useful if you were using both ends of the range a lot -- here's a picture of one located just above the 5th valve key:

http://www.amati-denak.cz/english/produ ... gprtxg.htm

My preference would be to have them both accessible.

eupher61 · Post by **eupher61** » Sun May 13, 2007 6:24 pm

but then, there's the Perantucci B&S example, where both the first and 5th slides are real handy. I only need to pull 1 on notes other than D that use only 12. no other combinations need any adjustment, nor do any other slides.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:04 pm

Remember folks- horn players have an instrument the same length and yet they don't have easy access to any of the 6 valve slides (and yes, I do realize they can work with their hands in the bell, but do you know any that subtle!?)

Work with your ears and your chops; five or six valves should be plenty!

pulseczar · Post by **pulseczar** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:20 pm

windshieldbug wrote:Remember folks- horn players have an instrument the same length and yet they don't have easy access to any of the 6 valve slides (and yes, I do realize they can work with their hands in the bell, but do you know any that subtle!?)

Work with your ears and your chops; five or six valves should be plenty!

They also have a separate set of tubing (or even two!) to switch the horn to a different fundamental.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:28 pm

windshieldbug wrote:Remember folks- horn players have an instrument the same length and yet they don't have easy access to any of the 6 valve slides (and yes, I do realize they can work with their hands in the bell, but do you know any that subtle!?)

Yes, frankly, in the orchestra for the Christmas specials last year at church. He had a really nice Conn 8D, and had that much control over both pitch and timbre. Where I sat to play was actually at a point where his bell actually pointed right at me, so I heard everything. It was very enjoyable to actually hear a real french hornist in command of his instrument for the first time in many years.

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Sun May 13, 2007 11:56 pm

G at the top of the staff seems to be the main first valve problem note on the F tubas I have owned. On the Yamaha, it was more or less lippable, but I had a ring installed on the slide so I could push in for that note. Otherwise, it can be played 4th just fine. On my current F, I don't touch the slides but use 4 for that note and make good use of all 6 valves. Using 3 for sharp 12 combinations seems to eliminate most 1st pulling.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon May 14, 2007 10:27 am

pulseczar wrote:They also have a separate set of tubing (or even two!) to switch the horn to a different fundamental.

I WAS JOKING ABOUT HORN PLAYERS!

But as far as double or even triple horns go, they can ONLY use on side or the other, which gives them only 12 or even 18 possible combinations if it's a triple. My point was, with a 5 valve horn, there are 121 combinations possible... or even 721 on a 6 valve horn. Now I know you can't use 'em all for any given note, but there oughta be something in there that will get you close!

And my comment about ears was because even IF you found the perfect auto-pilot even-tempered horn, there's still many other kinds of intonation (just, for example) and situations that will still cause you to make adjustments. For those situations you need your ears, not drill.

Lee Stofer · Post by **Lee Stofer** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:45 pm

I agree with Mr. Windshieldbug, in that it is nice to have a horn that makes intonation, etc., easier for you, but the bottom line is learning to play the horn. And, don't expect it to play like a contrabass tuba.

My Rudi 5/4 F has 6 valves, the 1st slide is virtually un-reachable when playing, but that is not an issue because I don't pull any slides on it while playing. I first started playing on that F tuba in 1989, and one would think that by now I should be able to control the pitch on it.

Let's give the designers of these instruments a little credit. If the 1st is not readily accessible, then the designer and the people who did play-testing during the design process did not think that it was necessary. If the 1st slide on an F tuba is readily accessible, and is talked up by the salesman, realize that you'll probably HAVE TO use the 1st to have a chance of playing that horn in tune. I've played tubas like that, and that set-up is OK if you are comfortable with that.

The important thing is to find what works for you and go with it. Maybe this is not a typical case, but I found that I could readily adapt to playing the large-bore, 4+2 Rudi, and so I'm sticking with that until I find something that works enough better to justify a change.

Questions for the experienced F tuba player....

Questions for the experienced F tuba player....

Correction...